Well, you're half right -- we're not equals.

Huh? Bush isn't a Republican? What possessed you to say that?

It's true that he's only partially a conservative.

It is these fatuous, hysterical, overbroad remarks that prevent people from taking you seriously. If you confined yourself to specific, concrete, provable theses, we could have a reasonable discussion. But the above torrent of drivel is essentially not even worth addressing.

Where?

Where? Oh right -- where I failed to uncritically swallow one of your conspiracy theories.

Cite?

I'm not a Republican at all, so once again you make invalid assessments. I'm more libertarian than Republican, but in the present two party system, you don't have infinite choices. There are two choices. Bush is a compromise in a dozen different ways, and underwhelming in other ways. But the ONLY other option is Kerry, 100% phony, an empty suit and Leftist to the (rotten) core, every single platform element of which I disagree with. I could never vote for Kerry. Hence we have a lesser of two evils decision, as always.

No, Kerry is known too.

The tax cuts are felt by those that paid the taxes to begin with. Otherwise it would be collectivist redistribution.

But the other 80% do feel the benefit of the tax cuts by the improvement of the economy, which benefits them disproportionately.

See...

I tryed and this is the answer I am given... in the face of your audacious sanctimonious and most pompous self serving drivel I can only ignore you and make mocking noises equaling a derived sigh of exhaustion.....


""It is these fatuous, hysterical, overbroad remarks that prevent people from taking you seriously. If you confined yourself to specific, concrete, provable theses, we could have a reasonable discussion. But the above torrent of drivel is essentially not even worth addressing.""
you deny without noting facts--- leaving no room for debate nor intelligent conversation......

""Where? Oh right -- where I failed to uncritically swallow one of your conspiracy theories.""

you deny again.... which gives one no room for discussion.....

""Well, you're half right -- we're not equals.""

Damn right we are not.... I have morals and an idea of how to hold a real debate(((though I do concede I have given up doing so in your case)))

"Cite?"

Do your homework dear boy.... do your homework..... look it up... google it..... yahoo it... go educate yourself..... his IQ is a flat 91.... does that make you feel a little sick??? Bush may be a little cunning yet it is also easy to say that a fox is cunning even if not very smart.... which Bush is not.... he exists in the political arena upon the shoulders of his fathers accomplishments and his "parties" faith....
both of which do not a president make..... in November you can say bye bye....


""Huh? Bush isn't a Republican? What possessed you to say that?

It's true that he's only partially a conservative""

No.. he is not a Republican.... nor is he a conservative... Oh.. wait you halfway agreed with me.... wow.... that was not so hard was it???

""Where?""

Why should I take my time to point out your glaringly obvious flaws...... they are after all yours which you must exist with.... I only have to deal with you here.. and that is if I want to.... which i must add it gives me a great deal of humor to do so

Ahh.. so you do agree that the present tax cuts only exist to aid the wealthy???

Else why your second statement.......??

That's the point -- what specific, testable, concrete facts did you bring up in that remark? None. Just sweeping hysterical statements that can't be addressed.

Um, no, I asked you to provide specific backup for your slander of me. You failed to do so. So, true, no room for discussion until you document your insults better.

The Howler of the Day award front-runner.

No need. I already knew the truth, but gave you a chance to recant:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bliq-bush.htm

The GWB IQ = 91 story is an URBAN LEGEND, which anyone could have seen for himself with a little homework.

In short, you uncritically swallowed a rather silly urban legend, and then parrot it because it so closely matches your preconceptions.

The Irony Meter is pegged at your smug dismissal of "Do your homework dear boy.... do your homework..... "

This, then, is the gullibility you bring to bear when offered fatuous conspiracy theories. If they align nicely with your hate-Bush agenda, you swallow the conspiracy theory.

Oh, and thanks for leaning into the punch again.

What does make me sick is that you're presumably a typical Kerry voter -- God help America!

More silliness. The GOP is a political party that anyone can join. There's no objective criteria for being a Republican other than joining the party. If you join the Republican Party (and clearly Bush did), you are Republican BY DEFINITION.

Conservatism, on the other hand, is a political philosophy, hence one can be GOP and not conservative.

Everyone has flaws. You can keep yours; I'll keep mine.

Interesting that you can't discuss economic facts without resorting to leftist jargon. Thinking in jargon prevents clear thought.

I'll try again: tax cuts return excess tax money to the people who paid those taxes. If I go to a store and the cashier decided she overcharged me, the refund goes to ME, and is not "targeted" to other customers. How big my overcharge refund is depends on how big my purchase was.

Curious that you can't see this simple reality in other than class-envy terms.

And of course the liberal cant of "the wealthy." In reality, if you look at any tax chart, what you call "the wealthy" is really the middle class on up, and is specifically the small-scale entrepreneur who is helped; the very class that provides most of the new jobs in the US. The really wealthy already have cadres of accountants to shield their weath -- it isn't personal income they rely on.

Wealthy, as I've seen it, are those who are worth 200k+ I always say middle-class as those around the 50-100k range, not including residence.

But that's not how the IRS sees it. Look at a tax rate chart, like this:

http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/

Actually i forced your hand to post hard evidence to the contrary... which you finally did instead of evading and answering "poppycock" or a derivative thereof.... now was that sooooo hard to do..... it is fairly easy to dismiss... yet it takes some thought to actually provide proof that a "fact" is not actually a "fact"... try doing it a little bit more often......

yet you can assume what you will.....

Now if you could only drop the "labels" we could have a very good discusion here... yet you insist upon using labels to describe people..... this can lead to hostility and the break up of good discussion..... I will grant you that you do come close within the bounds of that last post yet you insist upon resorting to political labeling and the rhetoric thereof....... if you had replied thusly----

""I'll try again: tax cuts return excess tax money to the people who paid those taxes. If I go to a store and the cashier decided she overcharged me, the refund goes to ME, and is not "targeted" to other customers. How big my overcharge refund is depends on how big my purchase was.
In reality, if you look at any tax chart, what you call "the wealthy" is really the middle class on up, and is specifically the small-scale entrepreneur who is helped; the very class that provides most of the new jobs in the US. The really wealthy already have cadres of accountants to shield their weath -- it isn't personal income they rely on."""

It would have been a very good post and worthy of reply.....

You really should follow your own wise words---""Thinking in jargon prevents clear thought.""

I hope that you can see that I have merely been mirroring your replies and posts with my own and can understand how annoying that really is.....

Nice self-exculpating tap dance, but it's a little hard to cloak the reality that you smugly embraced an inane urban legend when it suited your prejudices. Then I call you on it, and you think this is a morality lesson and an embarrassment for ME ??? LOL!

You made a fool of yourself on a public form. All the rest is your smokescreen. End of story.

This, by the way, is why the asserter has the burden of proof to support claims. Often those claims are frivolous and when you're forced to do homework on your own claims, you find that out.

No, it is clear the vapid jargon is all your own, and it is hardly new -- your leftwing, class-warfare, hate-Bush language was on display all along.

The day you drop your absurdly strident hate-Bush rhetoric ("dictator"..."monster") is the day I'll listen to advice from you on the subject of moderate speech and reasonable claims.

Until then, pottle, kettle->black.

Ahh... and I was so hoping you would understand what I have been doing th epast few days.... I suppose that your anger and lack of humble thought holds you from doing so..... oh well... it was worth a try..... I shall go back to being silent and watching again I suppose.... better that than wasting my time with you

Have fun.....

See you do not understand...... I had hoped you would....

It is akin to attempting to explain higher mathematics to a 3rd grader......

calling bush a dictator= terminology and opinion

calling a member of darkforum a leftist/communist/etc etc=ad hominem attacks and flame baiting= a nice ban.....

by the way.... i do not hate Bush.... you do not even have the faintest idea of my true beliefs.... this has pretty much been a charade in an attempt to drive good discussion into this forum.... yet I can see that is an inherent impossibility..... I am sure that if I went to whatever other forums you discuss at you do not behave in this manner at all.....

Some DF members ARE leftists and presumably are proud to be so. Many more hold basically leftwing POV's. This is a fact. Curious that you think that an insult.

Again, pot/kettle. You have been decidedly nasty as well. You can claim now, conveniently, that it was all an act, but that doesn't change anything.

This is why moderators who get down and dirty in the political discussions NEVER end up being impartial.

Let's see: you act for a sustained period of time like a raging, lunatic hate-Bush leftist, and now you're complaint is that I believed you?

You admit to deliberately being a phony, and your complaint is about ME?

PS: your recent, convenient story about pretending to be a Bush hater is patently untrue. A quick check of your posts