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Politics Discuss Did the President lie about nukes? Judge for yourself... in the Debate and Discussion forums; On December 16, 1998, Bill Clinton informed the nation that he had ordered military action against Iraq. No less than three times Clinton referred to Iraq's nuclear arms or ...

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Did the President lie about nukes? Judge for yourself... - 07-21-03

On December 16, 1998, Bill Clinton informed the nation that he had ordered military action against Iraq. No less than three times Clinton referred to Iraq's nuclear arms or nuclear program.


Example 1: "Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors."


Example 2: "Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas, or biological weapons."


Example 3: "And so we had to act and act now. Let me explain why. First, without a strong inspection system, Iraq would be free to retain and begin to rebuild its chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons programs in months, not years."


Notice that in the first example, Clinton speaks of attacking Iraq's nuclear program, which obviously requires the known existence — indeed, the location — of such a program. And in the third example, Clinton warns of an imminent threat Iraq could reconstitute, among other things, its nuclear-weapons program, thereby alleging its existence.


Now, on what basis did Clinton conclude that Saddam Hussein had a nuclear weapon, a nuclear-weapons program, or the ability to reconstitute such a program in months? Well, let's look at certain key public statements and representations by Clinton himself and his top people.


Fact 1: On September 3, 1998, Clinton reported to Congress on "Iraq's non-compliance with U.N. Security Council resolutions." In the section of the report labeled "Nuclear Weapons," Clinton's report stated:


In an interim report to the UNSC July 29, the IAEA ["International Atomic Energy Agency"] said that Iraq had provided no new information regarding outstanding issues and concerns. The IAEA said while it has a 'technically coherent picture' of Iraq's nuclear program, Iraq has never been fully transparent and its lack of transparency compounds remaining uncertainties. The IAEA noted Iraq claims to have no further documentation on such issues as weapons design engineering drawings, experimental data, and drawings received from foreign sources in connection with Iraq's centrifuge enrichment program. The IAEA also reported that Iraq was 'unsuccessful' in its efforts to locate verifiable documentation of the abandonment of the nuclear program....


Thus, Clinton's own report to Congress, during the lead up to military action against Iraq, contained no substantive information about Iraq's "nuclear arms" or "nuclear weapons program." Instead, it emphasized the near total lack of insight into such matters.


Fact 2: On September 9, 1998, in response to the United Nations Security Council's vote to suspend Iraqi sanction reviews, Clinton issued a short statement which said, in part:


... The Security Council has made crystal clear that the burden remains on Iraq to declare and destroy all its nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them.


But Iraq did not "declare" its "nuclear weapons." In fact, there's no evidence Iraq actually had "nuclear weapons," per se, as opposed to certain materials or parts that might be used to build such weapons. Clinton's statement regarding Iraq's "nuclear weapons" was utterly false.


Fact 3: During Mike McCurry's September 30, 1998, press briefing, McCurry contradicted Clinton's September 9 statement. McCurry stated, in part:


... [W]e are aware of the allegations that Iraq retained weapons-related components, but we can't confirm the specific allegation that they have acquired those devices. There's little doubt that they have sought nuclear capability. That's been one of our long-standing concerns and one of the reasons why we have insisted on support for the international efforts by the International Atomic Energy Agency to monitor and to investigate suspected activities in Iraq. It's why we've supported UNSCOM, as well, for similar and related issues.


Iraq's current refusal to allow inspections by both the IAEA and UNSCOM ... is totally unacceptable. We continue to believe that there is a lot more to know about Iraq's nuclear program. We've sought clarification before we're willing to consider what kind of final punctuation mark you can place on efforts by Iraq to acquire nuclear related technology.


So, McCurry made clear that the Clinton administration could not confirm that Iraq had actually acquired "devices" for producing nuclear weapons, or even the extent to which Iraq was attempting to acquire "nuclear-related technology."


Fact 4: At a September 30, 1998, State Department press briefing, Secretary of State Madeline Albright's spokesman, James Foley, was asked about Iraq's nuclear capabilities.


Question: "I was just asking about the Iraqi progress towards nuclear weapons. There [are] two reports in the past two years, apparently, that the United States has been told that Iraq is building atomic bombs, at least the nuclear shells, the nuclear weapons without the atomic cores. Can you comment on that?


Mr. Foley: "Well, I'm not aware that the United States has been told any such thing. But what I can say in response to your question and the articles is that we are aware of allegations that Iraq retained weapons-related components, but we cannot confirm these allegations. ...


... In terms of the allegation itself, again, it's not something we can confirm; it's important, though, to understand the potential ramifications. Having several components of a warhead does not mean that one necessarily has a usable nuclear weapon. In this regard the IAEA, we're told, feels confident, that Iraq does not have sufficient fissile material or the ability to produce that material for a weapon.


Again, this really underscores our concern about the lack of intrusive UNSCOM and IAEA inspections. The limited ongoing monitoring program can help deter obvious Iraqi attempts to rebuild the WMD capability during this period, but we are very concerned, obviously, about the longer run."


Foley, therefore, could not even confirm that Iraq retained nuclear weapons-related components. And Foley emphasized that without U.N. inspections, the Clinton administration did not and would not have insight into nuclear-related issues involving Iraq.


Consequently, on December 16, 1998, when Clinton told the nation that he ordered military strikes against Iraq to, among other things, attack its nuclear program, to prevent Saddam Hussein from threatening the world with nuclear arms, and to stop Hussein from rebuilding his nuclear weapons program in a matter of months, he had no basis for these assertions. They were utterly false. Moreover, I could find no statements from Secretary of State Albright endorsing Clinton's characterization of Iraq's nuclear capabilities.


When you contrast Clinton's unequivocal yet insupportable arguments about Iraq's nuclear program with the qualified yet accurate 16-words President George Bush used in his January 28, 2003, State of the Union Address to describe Iraq's effort to secure uranium, the liberal bias of the mainstream media in giving a continuing voice to Democratic charges becomes obvious. The Democrats are, and will remain, unsatisfied with any response provided by the Bush administration. Such is their political strategy. As if to highlight the point, Democratic-party advertisements accusing the president of lying already began appearing on television last week.


And President Bush's chief accuser is a long-serving, little-known liberal partisan from Michigan, Senator Carl Levin. Levin charges that "[t]he uranium issue is not just about sixteen words. It is about the conscious decisions that were made, apparently by the NSC and concurred in by the CIA, to create a false impression" to help President Bush justify war with Iraq. Although Levin is chairman of no committee, he's now conducting his own "investigation."


But Levin never questioned Clinton's assertions about Iraq's nuclear arms, nuclear program, or imminent nuclear threat. He didn't accuse Clinton of manipulating intelligence as a cover to attack Iraq. He didn't demand hearings and investigations. In fact, back then, Levin himself played fast and loose with the facts.


On October 9, 1998, in a speech on the Senate floor, Levin stated, in part:


With respect to Iraq's history, the Security Council noted Iraq's threat during the Gulf War to use chemical weapons in violation of its treaty obligations, Iraq's prior use of chemical weapons, Iraq's use of ballistic missiles in unprovoked attacks, and reports that Iraq attempted to acquire materials for a nuclear weapons program contrary to its treaty obligations.


But as described above, in 1998 the U.N.'s IAEA, McCurry, and Foley had no evidence that Iraq was attempting to acquire materials for nuclear weapons, which is why they all decried the lack of U.N. inspectors in Iraq. Clinton's report to Congress, which Levin would have seen, provided no evidence. In other words, Levin, like Clinton, and many other Democrats, did, in fact, mislead the American people.


Don't expect the mainstream media to notice, however. They're too busy regurgitating the Democrats' talking points.

http://www.nationalreview.com/



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07-29-03

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixgun_Symphony
But Levin never questioned Clinton's assertions about Iraq's nuclear arms, nuclear program, or imminent nuclear threat. He didn't accuse Clinton of manipulating intelligence as a cover to attack Iraq. He didn't demand hearings and investigations. In fact, back then, Levin himself played fast and loose with the facts.
So the 'real' question at hand, in your mind Six, is why aren't the anti-war protestors, (which seem to include Levin), making notice of Cliton's remarks back in '98 & '99...

Would it possibly be because Clinton didn't commit America to a War, declaring an 'immenient' threat to the American people...
Only costing the US econmy 1.4 Billion dollars a day.

Bush did this, not Clinton,...
all based on phony, forged, or trummped up threats.

Maybe thats why Levin isn't arguing Clinton's 'statements' back then.

Outside of all of this,
Ive personally found it interesting that you always refer to the 'unclasified' KGB documents, which apparently 'prove' that Alger Hiss was a communist.
Why,.. these same 'KGB' documents are used by David Irving as to his apparent 'evidence', that the murder of 6 Million Jewish people never happened in WWII (Holocust denier).

So, therefore, once again, I would have to arrive at the conclusion that you are quite possibly a holocust denier.
That is, if we are to believe in the 'authenticty' of these 'documents'.


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07-29-03

not to mention Iraq in 98 was a little bit more militant than iraq in 2003
  
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07-29-03

I wouldn't say that.




Fact remains though, Clinton even acknowledged Hussein's nuclear/chemical weapons. I heard the words myself years ago on the news. I don't believe for one second that a person like Saddam would get rid of something that would give him more power. We can't find them? Doesn't suprise me. I doubt the weapons are still even in Iraq. Saddam may be a nutcase and vile, but he isn't hugely stupid. If I were in his shoes, the first thing I would have done would be to move the aforementioned weapons out of the country, so that America and her supporters wouldn't be able to find them there. When they didn't find the weapons in Iraq, then it would make us look like the things many democrats are calling us. I definitely believe there are nuclear/biological/chemical weapons. But I also believe Saddam has moved them out of the country.


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07-30-03

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duddy
I don't believe for one second that a person like Saddam would get rid of something that would give him more power. We can't find them? Doesn't suprise me. I doubt the weapons are still even in Iraq. Saddam may be a nutcase and vile, but he isn't hugely stupid. If I were in his shoes, the first thing I would have done would be to move the aforementioned weapons out of the country, so that America and her supporters wouldn't be able to find them there. When they didn't find the weapons in Iraq, then it would make us look like the things many democrats are calling us. I definitely believe there are nuclear/biological/chemical weapons. But I also believe Saddam has moved them out of the country.
Interesting...

How does one "move" an underground concrete bunker ?
And where could you "hide" an underground concrete bunker ?

Yes,... the weapons and all the storage points, such as concrete bunkers, have all been hidden.

So, either the Iraqi's are amazing Engineers, who construct 'removable' underground concrete bunkers...
OR
they never existed in the first place.


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07-30-03

Everyone knows the war is based on some Bible Code event. No one really believes in that, but they do believe sending tons of people out of the country so more people can have jobs will help the recession.

Not that it matters. A big part of the recession is from everyone selling their old stock and investing in other countries and gold. Since the capital gains tax is so high no one is going to sell and reinvest in the USA economy.
  
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07-30-03

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporate Pig

So, either the Iraqi's are amazing Engineers, who construct 'removable' underground concrete bunkers...
OR
they never existed in the first place.
There still remains the possibility that they haven't been found, though it is admittedly getting quite unlikely. I agree that they couldn't have moved them abroad though. Who would take them? Syria turned Saddam's family away from the border, and they were his closest allies. Iran, Turkey and Kuwait can be counted out because they really don't like him, which means they would have to have been moved to Jordan or Saudi Arabia, neither of which have any reason to do him such a big favour. If they're there, they must be in the country.
  
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07-30-03

I'd just like to add that if it's true that they've only just discovered a vast amount of munitions under Schipol airport in Berlin then perhaps any such weapons would be quite tricky to find unless someone wanted to tell you about them.
  
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08-10-03

Bill Clinton reported that Iraq had a nuke capability just a few years ago.

What changed? We now have a republican in the White House.

I suspect that there would be no "anti-war movement" if it were a president Al Gore sending the troops into Iraq rather than a president George W. Bush.


BTW, Corporate Pig

Your comments are as bizzare as the holocaust denier that you mentioned.

That you know so much about these revisionist historians, I wonder if you were involved in that movement. Maybe your PLO sympathies brought you over to this David Irving person?



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08-11-03

I don't suppose that you ever considered that what really happened was that 9/11 made American people of all political factions look at the outside world and start to care about the effect that our foreign policy has? Maybe it's not about political factions but a change of consciousness?


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08-11-03

What I see are that the homegrown Reds have alot of sympathy for America's enemies.

Its obvious why the homegrown Reds would be against American foriegn policy during the Cold War.

It's a not so obvious why they support the IslamoFascists. Some leftists do support the USA in this conflict we are now in. But others are either pro-PLO or they are simply so anti-Bush that it don't matter who we are fighting. Saddam could nuke an American city and they would still be against any American military response because its George W. Bush at the helm.



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08-11-03

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixgun_Symphony
What I see are that the homegrown Reds have alot of sympathy for America's enemies.

Its obvious why the homegrown Reds would be against American foriegn policy during the Cold War.

It's a not so obvious why they support the IslamoFascists. Some leftists do support the USA in this conflict we are now in. But others are either pro-PLO or they are simply so anti-Bush that it don't matter who we are fighting. Saddam could nuke an American city and they would still be against any American military response because its George W. Bush at the helm.
Do you think that for an American to oppose American policy is always wrong and unpatriotic?
  
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08-11-03

No one ever said that Clinton told the truth either. The difference was, few, if any, American troops lost their lives in Clinton's campaign...therefore it was tolerable. Bush has blundered this from the beginning.

Its quite funny the discrimination that the right has been giving to anyone who opposes their ideas...this all sort of goes against everything that this country was based upon.


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08-11-03

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arty
Do you think that for an American to oppose American policy is always wrong and unpatriotic?

You need to look at my thread about how the liberals in Oregon had been supporting a self confessed Islamic terrorist.

http://darkforum.com/showthread.php?t=35029



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08-12-03

Yes...by doing all the wrong things.

He's killing all the criminals a few towns over, leaving the kingpins known only as "UNEMPLOYMENT" and "POOR ECONOMY," as well as "CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS" to run rampant in his own town.

Nice analogy...I could get some play off of that.

In any case, the objective in Clinton's strikes were to get Iraq to allow the UN Inspectors back into the country. Quite a different objective from the one currently carried out.


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08-12-03

The economy here started going sour a year before Bush got elected. The crash of the over inflated dot.coms had much to do with it.
Then there was the attacks on 911, which had a great impact on what was already a weak economy.

The only 'civil rights violations' are that we have been detaining and deporting terrorist suspects. They are not citizens and are here illegally. In fact they could be shot as spies and saboteurs.

Whats all this about UN inspectors? Its been 12 years of this shell game in Iraq. It was time to end it after 911 and dismantle the Iraqi state.



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08-12-03

Yeah...but it wasn't 12 years when Clinton went in.

Another interesting point...if the Iraqis had these weapons, why didn't they use them to defend themselves? I suppose they'd rather die by the thousands?


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08-12-03