The only thing that Bush could've done better: At one point he almost said "Mexed Missages" but stopped himself and said "Mixed Messages" instead. He should've stayed with the first one.

The debates are scripted only to a point. Kerry's people prepare him, and go over Bush's likely responses, and vice versa. If you noticed on some of the split screen moments, you'd see them writing things down...they definitely were winging some things. But that's just how its done...

Kerry just looked more confident and sure than Bush did. Bush repeated himself unnecessarily (going off topic with it mostly). I'm not certain, but I think that the only thing he knows how to say anymore is "You can't say 'This war was a mistake' and keep the morale of the troops." Quickly, here's how it went in the debate:

Jim: "Mr. President, two minutes: What can you say about North Korea?"
Bush: "Well, Jim, you can't say 'This war was a mistake' and keep the morale of the troops."

Jim: "Mr. President, two minutes: What is the population of Texas?"
Bush: (3 hour pause) "Well, Jim, you can't say 'This war was a mistake' and keep the morale of the troops."

I was almost disappointed. I wanted to see both of them get into it a little more. Bush showed little charisma. Kerry came off rather likeable as it was, and Bush's lack of appeal made it even better for Kerry.

Yeah Kerry. I do think he tore Bush apart, but there were a lot of times where I was just like, "AW, Man Kerry! If you just would have said this you would have had him crying!" Just a bit of moments I think where Kerry could have caused more damage. I also wish he could have been just a little more specific when defending himself over the flip floping charges. I believe him that he never has, but a lot of people still think he's a flipper just because thats all they hear about him, and no one ever talks about Bush's "Mixed Messages".

Bush at the debates...
"You cannot lead if you send mixed messages, mixed messages send the wrong signals to our troops. Mixed messages send wrong signals to our allies. Mixed messages send wrong signals to Iraqi citizens. And that's my biggest concern about my opponent."

Bush when asked if we can win the war on terror...
“I don’t think you can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that the - those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world.” [NBC, “The Today Show,” 8/30/04]

Then later...
"Make no mistake about it: We are winning and we will win. We will win by staying on the offensive. We will win by spreading liberty. We believe that liberty can transform nations from tyranny into peaceful nations."
["Washington Post" 9/1/04]

Way linear reasoning. You're essentially asking "If someone can't debate, can they really make any decisions at all?". Yes, they can. Debates are only one part of politics, a small part, and I think it's more important to look at a person's actions than what comes out of their mouths. Who do you think would make a better sleezy car saleseman, Bush or Kerry? Does the fact that Kerry makes his deal sound better than Bush's make it better?

Bush has shown capacity to lead in the past, no lack of debating skill can deny that. That last quote from the Tonight Show? He was describing that it could be overcome, but that you obviously cannot eliminate all terrorist in the world. It's a big stretch to call it "flip flopping".

Try a Kerry quote on the same subject: "I voted for the war, before I voted against it.". He admits strait up that he changed his position.

Kerry completely butchered Bush's ass...he was quite articulate and make a few decent arguments. Bush, on the other hand, must have repeated himself a half dozen times on some of the silliest of remarks...

...it was like debate between an ivy league graduate and a guy who just got fired from McDonalds...

..watching the debate was enough to make me go from not caring enough and being pretty down the middle to actually wanting to go out and vote for Kerry....

I was talking about how he cracks under pressure. And how if this is how he is going to handle himself with Kerry, how is he going to handle himself when a real problematic situation comes along. And I think history has shown how he can handle it...Not very well. As for the Kerry quote, not to be nit picky, but I'm assuming you meant, "I actually did vote for the 87 billion dollars, before I voted against it." I agree the sentence itself is a little confusing, but the story behind it I think is quite reasonable. When the pentagon (who actually had experience in handling wars) drew out plans on what to do in Iraq, Donald Rumsfeld ignored them. So we sent our troops into Iraq to basically go wing it. Because we had no plan on specifically what to do or how to get out, to this day the situation over there is getting worse. Kerry would have voted for the 87 Billion if it contained a partial rollback from Bush's tax cuts, because it's just common sense that you don't hand out huge tax cuts during a time of war when that money could be going to the soldiers, but because Bush stayed with them and had never shown any proof that Iraq had any evidence of WMD's, and showed poor leadership over the looting and the controling of the war, Kerry opposed it. He didn't do it not because he didn't "Support the troops." he did it to not only save the troops, but US tax dollars too. But the bill passed anyway and since then, billions went missing and our soldiers are still being shipped off to Iraq without body armor. Kerry wanted to fund the troops, but not in such an irresponsible fashion as Bush did, and was right for it. I'd like to point out by the way that if you look at Bush's proposed FY 2005 budget plan, he is not planning on spending a single penny on US soldiers in Iraq. If that isn't a flip flop, I don't know what is...

Oh yeah, I think this is worth looking at, http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0815-09.htm

Hooray for memorized sound bites regurgitated in response to already expected questions. Debate my ass. This was a conglomerated infomercial. The fact that they actually allowed rebuttals after the initial answers was the only thing that made it remotely resemble a "debate."

Yes, Kerry came out strong and made the better impression. However, I'd like to point out that despite his strong conviction in telling America he has a plan, he still neglected to say what that plan actually is.

I spent a lot of time listening to CNN praise what a strong debater George W. Bush is. My only question is, which George W. Bush were they talking about? It certainly wasn't the testy, floundering man I saw behind the podium to Kerry's left.

It's the forum, and the pressure to look good that kills Bush. I've seen him many times in less publicized forums, where he is answering reporter's questions, talking off the cuff, and he looks good. When you put him on a script, he falls apart.

He should never have backed off this. I think his handlers crafted this answer taking the stupidity of the average joe into account. If you define "winning the war on terror" as totally eliminating terrorists, and there will NEVER be another terrorist attack, then you have no concept of the way the world works. There will always be terrorists. Some suicidal looney with a cause will always pop up somewhere and kill a bunch of people.

Holy shit! We agreed on something!

My prediction for the vice-pres debate tonight:

Cheney will wipe the floor with Edwards. Cheney is better at this sort of thing than Bush, and I can't imagine that Rove will allow a repeat of last Thursday.

My prediction is already wrong. It's turning out to be more of a draw, but it's GREAT. They're attacking each other. They've gotten mad and thrown a few cheap shots. They're doing that while still getting out hard facts and information. This is what a debate is supposed to be.

He did respond. He said it's his job as vice-president to support the president's policies, even if he doesn't personally agree.

What did everyone think about the second debate? Once again, it seemed to me that Kerry mopped the floor with Bush. Bush couldn't even keep a straight face. Every time Kerry responded to a question his eye would twitch, his jaw would twitch...he didn't have to open his mouth to let you know he was in trouble.

... Anyone else suspecting that bulge in his suit was indeed a RF reciever...?

I think Bush blew it when he started interupting the moderator. I thought he sounded like a baby. It was kind of funny to learn that Bush did infact own part of a lumber company like Kerry said. And that Bush's attempt to make him look like an idiot just made himself look stupid. I don't really care whether Bush is plugged or not...It hasn't helped him much anyway.