Death Penalty... - Darkforum.com - Dark Stories, Dark Art, Poetry, Photography, Debates and Discussions

Lenina · **Death Penalty... -** 08-09-05

What are your thoughts on it... I am just curious to know peoples input because we don't have a death penalty in the UK... It is still legal in the USA in some states yeah?

Apparently, death by lethal injection is very painful... I read that in something... I may find the link for that...

Anyway, what do you think about the governement and their methods of punishment for criminals? Do you think the death penalty is too harsh?

I once had a debate where the person I was talking to thought that the death penalty should be given to cerial killers who plead insanity... I dunno about that... If someone is insane then it means that they are not in their right minds and can be cured yeah? But still my buddy brought up a point that they are not well enough to be in public and throwing them in a mental home is just giving them hope to get out so they can do it again...

The reason I wanted to start this subject is because, I was watching the TV today about the American prisons and how they are becoming over crowded and some baby killer can be let out of jail along with other really bad criminals that shouldn't be alowed out into public...

Spikess · 08-09-05

the only problem i have with the death penalty is the amount of people that have been killed and then found out to be innocent. personaly i dont think it should be done unless they are totaly sure that the person did the crime, and not just on circumstantial evidence.

Lenina · 08-09-05

Yeah, thats the way I think too. That was why the death penalty was stopped in the UK, too many falsely accused people being put to death.

Science has came a long way since then, we can now collect DNA evidence on criminals so the chance of accusing the wrong person is unlikely.

Theres still that risk of accusing an innocent person though...

Spikess · 08-09-05

you know what they should do? take away prisoners ps2's. that might teach the buggers a lesson. mind you i dont know what prisons in america are like. but the prisoners over here seem to be better off than me!

Lenina · 08-09-05

I spoke to this little shithead kid who was locked up for most of his teen years. We were talking about prison and what it was like for him growing up in the slammer... His EXACT words were 'It was like a holiday at Butlins'....

Way to pushish someone into not commiting anymore crimes.

Spikess · 08-09-05

maybe i should get myself a spell in prison, might get away from the crazy frog!

thefr0g · 08-09-05

This is my hot button issue. I think the death penalty is wrong on every level. I dont understand a government that can prattle on and on about the sanctity of human life when it comes to abortion, yet doesnt seem to take issue with the fact that grown men are being killed all the time. Convicted criminals, yes, but that doesnt make them any less "alive".

Maybe I'd be in favor of the death penalty if we had a perfect judicial system with no flaws where all the guilty were definitely 100% guilty. But we dont, and because of that innocent people die. If 1 innocent man dies because of a flawed system, the system needs to be changed.

B'Aqu-anir · 08-09-05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenina

What are your thoughts on it... I am just curious to know peoples input because we don't have a death penalty in the UK... It is still legal in the USA in some states yeah?

Apparently, death by lethal injection is very painful... I read that in something... I may find the link for that...

It seems lethal injection can be as much a "learn while you earn" process as anything. It is administered by prison employees and contract labor, who may or may not have any real medical training beyond giving injections. The process will vary from prison to prison based on budget priorities, availability of trained personnel, and by the state's often-vague legislation on administering the death penalty. Is it painful? I guess it depends on who you talk to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenina

Anyway, what do you think about the governement and their methods of punishment for criminals? Do you think the death penalty is too harsh?

As someone once told me, "Sometimes the experiment fails miserably (individual human nature), and the only safe solution is to destroy the experiment before it kills again".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenina

I once had a debate where the person I was talking to thought that the death penalty should be given to cerial killers who plead insanity... I dunno about that... If someone is insane then it means that they are not in their right minds and can be cured yeah? But still my buddy brought up a point that they are not well enough to be in public and throwing them in a mental home is just giving them hope to get out so they can do it again...

This is where the application of the death penalty becomes a bit difficult to apply. IMO, someone found not guilty by reason of insanity in a case where the death penalty would otherwise apply, should be incarcerated for life, regardless of their "official" mental status.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenina

The reason I wanted to start this subject is because, I was watching the TV today about the American prisons and how they are becoming over crowded and some baby killer can be let out of jail along with other really bad criminals that shouldn't be alowed out into public...

Our prisons are becoming overcrowded, at least in apart, due to the inordinate number of people who have been jailed for long periods of time (5 to 10 years) for crimes involving the use, sale and distribution of the extremely "dangerous" drug, marijuana, and other otherwise minor drug crimes. That, of course is a subject for its own thread.

IMO the question of whether we should use the death penalty isn't so much if it should be used, but how to apply it equitably. There are definitely cases in which the murder should be executed.

J0hnnyReb · 08-09-05

I dont know anymore. I used ot be for it, but the more I think about it I feel like I am against it. If someone killed my loved ones I would feel that they had to die, but not from the state, I would want the right to avenge my family.

J0hnnyReb · 08-09-05

Quote:

Originally Posted by B'Aqu-anir

It seems lethal injection can be as much a "learn while you earn" process as anything. It is administered by prison employees and contract labor, who may or may not have any real medical training beyond giving injections. The process will vary fom prison to prison based on budget priorities, availability of trained personnel, and by the state's often-vague legislation on administering the death penalty. Is it painful? I guess it depends on who you talk to.

As someone once told me, "Sometimes the experiment fails miserably (individual human nature), and the only safe solution is to destroy the experiment before it kills again".

This is where the application of the death penalty becomes a bit difficult to apply. IMO, someone found not guilty by reason of insanity in a case where the death penalty would otherwise apply, should be incarcerated for life, regardless of their "official" mental status.

Our prisons or becoming overcrowded, at least in apart, due to the inordinate number of people who have been jailed for long perios of time (5 to 10 years) for crimes involving the use, sale and distribution of the extremely "dangerous" drug, marijuana, and other otherwise minor drug crimes. That, of course is a subject for its own thread.

IMO the question of whether we should use the death penalty isn't so much if it should be used, but how to apply it equitably. There are definitely cases in which the murder should be executed.

Jailing people for weed is such total fucking bullshit!

Dyshade · 08-09-05

Quote:

Originally Posted by J0hnnyReb

Jailing people for weed is such total fucking bullshit!

Absolutely. Lets jail this guy who had 5 LBS of pot and let the child rapist loose.

Our entire American Justice system needs a good revision. BUT I am all for the Death Penalty. I believe that if you kill in cold blood for no reason you deserve no better treatment. Civilized societies are founded on blood and it is blood which created the freedom we have today. It is blood which will continue to assure our freedom.

thefr0g · 08-09-05

Innocent blood? If so, we don't deserve freedom.

Lenina · 08-09-05

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefr0g

This is my hot button issue. I think the death penalty is wrong on every level. I dont understand a government that can prattle on and on about the sanctity of human life when it comes to abortion, yet doesnt seem to take issue with the fact that grown men are being killed all the time. Convicted criminals, yes, but that doesnt make them any less "alive".

Maybe I'd be in favor of the death penalty if we had a perfect judicial system with no flaws where all the guilty were definitely 100% guilty. But we dont, and because of that innocent people die. If 1 innocent man dies because of a flawed system, the system needs to be changed.

I am in agreement with you fr0g...

The one thing that I always question myself on is 'WHat right do we have to decide who lives and who dies?' But then, nobody has that right, some people kill others and well, I find 'let the punshment fit the crime' decorum for a murderer... Like the thing I saw on TV where a nurse injected a 18 month old baby with a deadly dose of muscle relaxents in front of the babie's mother, telling the kids mother that it was her 'Rubella vaccine'... Sick fuck did that while the parent was holding her child... I dunno what to think of that... She comes up for parole ever two years and could be let out next may due to the overcrowded prisons in the USA.

Personally, ten minutes in a room with the victims family is enough punishment and if the fucker lives after that, they should get locked up and instead of coming up for parole every 2 years, how about every year on the anniversery of the victims death, the victims family get 10 minutes in a room with the killer... See how many years they can survive that.... If it was my kid... That would be apt punishment.

Lenina · 08-09-05

Quote:

Originally Posted by B'Aqu-anir

It seems lethal injection can be as much a "learn while you earn" process as anything. It is administered by prison employees and contract labor, who may or may not have any real medical training beyond giving injections. The process will vary fom prison to prison based on budget priorities, availability of trained personnel, and by the state's often-vague legislation on administering the death penalty. Is it painful? I guess it depends on who you talk to.

As someone once told me, "Sometimes the experiment fails miserably (individual human nature), and the only safe solution is to destroy the experiment before it kills again".

This is where the application of the death penalty becomes a bit difficult to apply. IMO, someone found not guilty by reason of insanity in a case where the death penalty would otherwise apply, should be incarcerated for life, regardless of their "official" mental status.

Our prisons or becoming overcrowded, at least in apart, due to the inordinate number of people who have been jailed for long perios of time (5 to 10 years) for crimes involving the use, sale and distribution of the extremely "dangerous" drug, marijuana, and other otherwise minor drug crimes. That, of course is a subject for its own thread.

IMO the question of whether we should use the death penalty isn't so much if it should be used, but how to apply it equitably. There are definitely cases in which the murder should be executed.

You're rather insightful, I like that... I just wonder what most of the people in prisons have done...

As for the death penalty... I am against it to a certain level.... Only if the person either is 100% guilty (like fr0g said) should they be sentenced to death....

Dyshade · 08-09-05

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefr0g

Innocent blood? If so, we don't deserve freedom.

Yes. Innocent blood has been spilled to assure our modern civilization. It will always be a fact that sometimes innocent blood will be spilled in order to assure freedom. Whatever fashion and for whatever reasons we humans are a hostile, bloodthirsty, irrational lot.

Perhaps we do not deserve freedom. Perhaps we do not deserve life. Yet I can think of others who deserve it less.

harli · 08-09-05

Quote:

Originally Posted by J0hnnyReb

Jailing people for weed is such total fucking bullshit!

FINALLY YOUR MAKING SENSE!

thefr0g · 08-10-05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyshade

Yes. Innocent blood has been spilled to assure our modern civilization. It will always be a fact that sometimes innocent blood will be spilled in order to assure freedom. Whatever fashion and for whatever reasons we humans are a hostile, bloodthirsty, irrational lot.

Perhaps we do not deserve freedom. Perhaps we do not deserve life. Yet I can think of others who deserve it less.

Tell that to the family of the innocent man who was hanged for a crime he didn't commit. To the family who will never see any retribution for the murder of their own, because the STATE is the murderer.

The fact is, the death penalty is not a crime deterrent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnesty International (http://web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty-facts-eng)

(8. Effect of abolition on crime rates
Reviewing the evidence on the relation between changes in the use of the death penalty and homicide rates, a study conducted for the United Nations in 1988 and updated in 2002 stated: "The fact that the statistics continue to point in the same direction is persuasive evidence that countries need not fear sudden and serious changes in the curve of crime if they reduce their reliance upon the death penalty".

Recent crime figures from abolitionist countries fail to show that abolition has harmful effects. In Canada, for example, the homicide rate per 100,000 population fell from a peak of 3.09 in 1975, the year before the abolition of the death penalty for murder, to 2.41 in 1980, and since then it has declined further. In 2003, 27 years after abolition, the homicide rate was 1.73 per 100,000 population, 44 per cent lower than in 1975 and the lowest rate in three decades.

(Reference: Roger Hood, The Death Penalty: A World-wide Perspective, Oxford, Clarendon Press, third edition, 2002, p. 214)

The only purpose that the death penalty serves is revenge, one of the basest and most savage of human emotions. I've read and heard tell of many cases of a family witnessing an execution that was supposed to bring them "closure" but all it brought them was more guilt.

It amazes me that we aspire to be a higher culture, a more civilized culture, yet we still cling to this wild-west hangman bullshit. So many countries have abolished Capital Punishment and felt no ill effects, yet we keep killing, and keep putting the innocent at risk. Its easy to call them a sacrifice for a "greater good" until its someone YOU know and YOU love, or for that matter, it IS you. I wonder if anyone here would be glad to die a martyr's death in that case.

Uncletiggs · 08-10-05

If you are truely proven guilty of murder, you should be murdered... Hell, it says so right in the bibble!!!!

Actually, i think the system needs a revamp.. people who are getting life in prison without the possibility of parole are being fed/housed/clothed by my tax dollars!!! And what do they do?? watch cable tv, complain about being treated as an underclass, whine about not having enough crap that i have to help pay for...
And those that are scheduled to be executed can postpone it for 20 years by filing appeal after appeal!!! Bullshit.. let them go back to the chain gangs and learn about repayment for thier crimes..
And those on death row for admitted murders?? Firing squad sounds like a perfect way to do it.. 10 guys, one bullet not a blank, televise it, and kpresto! the crime rate might start going lower!! And that should apply to those stupid 15YO gang members who think they will get just a cushy 6 years in juvie as well!!