This may or may not belong in the political section, but what the hell it has to go somewhere. I never used to consider myself a 'liberal' in my political, spiritual, actual views, only a moderate, but after recent readings and lectures I've had the misfortune to hear on the conservative 'agenda' I'm happily grabbing the liberal flag and running as far as I can to the Left. Conservative issues seem more to be about racisim, homophobia, fire arm advocacy and the inability to realize or issue social change. I know this is NOT new news to most of us in the world today but I guess I had not realized how far it has gone. I try not use terms like 'fascist' ( it seems thats what all liberals are calling conservatives now) when the term is unjust but that is exactly what seems to be going on as I search other news groups and forums. They seem on the verge of recreating the HUAC or starting thier own army. Now, I've always feared and distrusted my goverment, as I fear and distrust any goverments. But this is getting bone-chillingly out of hand. I just want to realize whats going on.

1) what is the conservative 'goal'?
2) how do you justify militant conservatives?
3) can you logically justify your own biliefs in conservatisim?
4) are you all just really nuts?

Since I'm the last conservative standing on DF, I assume this is directed at me.

I'm curious what material you're reading that is giving you your opinions on conservatism.

Go to one of these boards:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum
http://www.vnnforum.com

Among hard core racists, you'll see a majority of leftists.
By the way, the people on those boards consider me a softie. I'm not trusted by the people who know me.

If I'm a homophobe, I'm drinking in the wrong bar. I go to a gothic club every weekend where 10-20% of the crowd is openly and obviously gay. Conservatives aren't "homophobic". We don't want gay marriage to be recognized by the state because that's a big social change, and there's usually no way to go back from those kind of changes if it turns out to be a bad idea.

Hell yes we advocate the freedom to own firearms. There's nothing wrong with that. It's enshrined in the bill of rights, and don't give me that militia crap. This nation's independence began with a battle that was started when the British army attempted to seize rifles from the colonists.

Facism is a left wing economic theory. Liberals use the word for shock value.

This is what's at the core of conservatism. An element of libertarianism is part of it. That's why I want to know what your sources are for the statements you are making.

I'm going to break this up into multiple posts. I have to go do something right now.

personal responsibility over gov't assistance
Anti-abortion
freedom of association
against activist courts
strong military
less regulation
low taxes
economic freedom
little gov't control of firearms
religious freedom

You asked a big question. I'm forgeting some, and glossing over a lot of details. Ask more detailed questions, and you'll get more detailed answers.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Expand on that and I'll happily answer it.

Conservatism is all about logic. Liberalism is more about emotionalism.

No. You liberals are nuts, we're sane.

no not just at you synikul it's directed at conservatives in general. But since your the only one to actually respond to this post maybe you are the only one left-which is sad by the way. I'm mostly responding to what I saw over on your other forum. I can see how you would be considered conservative light-but some of that is just plain scary. more later on this....

As for Liberalisim bieng emotional-I think that depends upon the person. Like I said I'm leiberal in many aspects but I also consider myself an extremely logical person where as I've heard conservatives, including yourself respond extremely emotionally to some issues and logically to others. We all have issues we feel passionatley about. Militant conservatisim I would catagorize as fundamentally religious, reactionary ( a fault on both sides), gun toteing, paranoid, homophobic, xenophobic, pro-military, 'my country-right or wrong' type people with an attiude that "liberal"="anti-American".

and no, conservatives are nuts, were the ones that are sane

Actually liberals agree with most of the except
insert personal reponsibilty & goverment responsibilty
pro-choice-this is a personal freedom and should fit in with your other freedoms.
personal responsibility for firearms
regulated/defensive military

but I'm sure others have a different definition

that makes little sense.

...combined with right-wing social theory. And does anyone talking about the evil of fascism care much about fascist economic theory? I think not.

As for the politics of racists, there is even a thread up about it on that website you put up:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=150614

It shows that, of those that state their views specifically, most of them hold broadly conservative views. Some claim not to be conservatives but don't state their actual views, and seem to think that conservatives are those that want to conserve the system. One or two make valid distinctions - WNs aren't generally pro-capitalist, for example, but the alternative views they express aren't akin to liberal economics. None of them seem to hold liberal views at all.



Anyway, the only other thing that I'd like to say is that it's a terrible shame that Synikul seems to be the only conservative left. JLB, Lawson etc I don't miss, they were just trolls, but what happened to dgg9?

Which forum? Knights Realm, or one of the racist forums? I'm considered very weak on racism by the true believer White Nationalists. I argue with them constantly. I'm on permanent moderation on Stormfront. That means every post I submit is reviewed and censored by a moderator before it goes on the board. VNN is a free speech forum, and I mostly troll there. The people on that board are the scum at the bottom of the White Nationalist barrel.

Some of it is truly scary. Read a book called The Turner Diaries. It was written by the founder of The National Alliance, which I am a former member of. There are people who actually long for the day the events in that book start to happen. I won't spoil it for you. It's an entertaining, and educational read.

We get pissed off because of the rapid rate that social change is happening. There is logic behind it. Liberal gov't policy is rooted in emotionalism. Take from the earners and give to those who didn't earn it to help them with their problems is a part of it. The consequences on society aren't considered in a logical, dispassionate way. In the big picture, you can't argue that welfare has been good for society. It has destroyed the family structure among poor people. You can see this plainly among blacks, and it was all done so that rich white liberals could feel better about themselves.

I don't see a problem with that type of person. Those people bitch a lot, and vote their interests. What's the problem? At the founding of this nation, the individual freedoms we still enjoy were concieved, and established by christians with guns. I don't see any threat to my freedom from the ones that still exist.

Oddly enough, you also described the majority of Muslims with that. Why do you see a threat from fellow Americans with those attitudes, but not from Islamics?

You nailed it! This is about culture more than politics. As Americans with a common culture, we generally agree that we want to make the country a better place, but we differ on how to do it.

Conservatives see the fetus as a seperate person, with full rights. That's where the conflict comes in. They don't view it as taking a right away from the mother. They think of themselves as protecting the right of the unborn.

I'm still neutral on abortion. I've mentally wrestled with the issue for years and I haven't reached a personal conclusion. Both sides make good arguments. My girlfriend is hard core pro-life. She had an abortion when she was 15(she's 40 now), and it fucked her mind up for years. She said she could feel the life being sucked out of her. Now she considers abortion to be murder.

What are you calling right wing social theory? Institutional racism isn't left or right. As a political element, racism can be added to any system. In America we had legal slavery for decades. Does that mean that slavery is a part of a Republic? We got rid of the slavery, but kept the constitutional republic. It would be possible to have facism without throwing jews in an oven. Not that I want facism. It's too close to socialism for me.

You also added to my point about the use of the word. Facist is an insult. Nothing more.

That was just one thread. I've been on that board for a long time. Take my word for it or not, but there are many more white nationalists who want a socialist system than anything else.

Yes, it's a shame. When JLB was here, he took the brunt of this, and I could sit back and snipe at targets of opportunity. Now I feel like I have a target painted on my ass.

the only thing that makes this forum interesting at all are the differing opinions. without that it tends be a collection of posers and lurps.

So as a confirmed liberal I say
WELCOME CONSERVATIVES

I'm not pointing you, or your posts out specifically. I went through the topics on those forums and I found them to be more racist and offensive than not. nothing like a topic called-

"Radical Homosexuals
How they continue to ram their agenda down our throtes, claim they are normal, and demand special rights"

to hit that ol' offensive button for an example.
My personal response is that I just don't understand discrimination, this is not some hippe, idealist crap, I've sat and thought about this over and over again and I don't understand what it's about. Thats my personal reasons. Societially speaking I just don't see the benefits of it or what it achieves.

These two statements kind of contradict each other don't they?
And I never said I did not see them as a threat, I do. I just did'nt agree that you should lump every single muslim in the world into one easily catagorized group. There are as many differing view of Islam as there are of christianity with thier cultures.
Think about that for a second.
humanity are individuals first,and affiliates second. So thier individual views-as you mentioned in your comparison of liberals and conservatives, come first.
Seeing all thier views as identical is unrealistic.

But I personnally see threats from anybody who beilieves what they beilieve top fiercely.

That's the reason I invited you to Knights Realm. Opposition forces people to think about what they believe, and why.

I don't see anything wrong with that statement. I don't have a problem with gays until they start demanding that their lifestyle be normalized. I have gay friends, and a bisexual girlfriend. They are out of the mainstream. To put it in a more vulgar fashion, they are freaks. There's nothing wrong with being a freak, this is America, you can have any lifestyle you want, but as a society we have to have standards of NORMAL behavior. That's the baseline from which you can deviate if you want, but don't change what is considered normal.