In Deutschland no less. Get ready for comparisons to The Nuremberg Trials: From Time Magazine: http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...557842,00.html

I'm almost more curious about what will be revealed by their investigation then I am about the actual outcome. It might sound weird but I almost pity Rumsfeld; he might be stereotyped as drinking the Blood of Puppies but I kind of see him as a sad, doddering old Man. Isolated by Power and out of touch with the effect his actions may have on the lives of other Human Beings; that is assuming he is shown to be responsible for the abuse of prisoners.

Tell the germans to suck our taint. fucking krauts.

lol. the germans. fuck them. and anyone who would even jokingly liken torture at abu-graihab (or whatever) and hitler's extermination of the jews can lean over and suck my dick.

Anyone have better responses than just gibbering??

Yes, I am absolutely against any official of the American government, or member of the American military standing trial in any foreign court for actions taken during their service. To me, this is worth starting wars over.

If you ask me, the thread is about gibbering. Its all the germans are doing.

Care to elaborate since it would at least give us something to discuss?

It's called nationalism, and it's rooted more in emotion than logic. We have our own process for punishing crimes committed in an official capacity, and that's the only thing that should ever happen to an American citizen. The key word is OFFICIAL. If Rumsfeld goes to Germany for vacation, and rapes one of the locals, or whatever, then he should stand trial in a German court for that or any other personal criminal act.

I can give two examples from the Iraq War. The 12 Marines who are currently in prison in San Diego, awaiting trial, for alleged war crimes in the town Haditha. You may have heard of the case. They were hit by an IED, then attacked 3 houses where they believed they were taking sniper fire from. They were wrong, and they killed an entire family, while clearing the houses in a perfectly executed textbook attack, which includes tossing grenades through the door before you go in. Iraq wanted them, but we refused. The case is still officially under investigation. IMO, they shouldn't even be charged with anything, but even if they are, it shouldn't happen in an Iraqi court because they were in the act of doing their jobs.

The other example is Stephen Green, whom you also may have heard of. He allegedly went alone, at night, into an Iraqi town near his unit, raped a 16 year old girl, murdered her family, and burned the house and the bodies in an attempt to cover up his crime. While he is a soldier, this was not an act committed while performing his official duties, and I have no problem with the Iraqi justice system, such as it is, having their way with him. He's a sick individual who was trying to use a war situation to do some sick shit, and I don't want him walking the streets of America. He was not handed over to Iraq because he was out of the army before he was arrested and charged. Another man in his unit told authorities as he was on his way out of the army himself. He is currently in prison awaiting trial.





The reason I make this distinction is that I am absolutely against any institution of international law getting the idea that it should have any sovereign power over American citizens. Germany has written its own laws to execute enforcement of international law, in accordance with the U.N. Charter. I'd like to see the UN smashed and disbanded, not given more power.

Well, first of all, it indicates by the names in the list of plaintiffs that this is not Germany seeking to press charges but that Germany was chosen as a venue because of it's unique jurisdiction on War Crimes. Most likely due to the Nuremberg Trials I imagine. As to your comparison, it brings up the issue of which side can be trusted to prosecute criminals fairly. Or, in this case, when a country basically sanctions the use of torture, war-crimes and the violation of the Geneva Convention; should the international court step in in order to prosecute those suspected of commiting these crimes? Particularly when an investigation should be held to determine if individuals higher up in the chain of command where involved in the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

The Nuremberg Trials were one of the worst things that have ever happened. That's where the idea that international justice can be handled in a courtroom setting originated, it was a farce then, and it's even more of a farce now.

When nations fight, justice is determined by the winner. We should have put those high ranking nazis in front of an American firing squad
and been done with it.

If anything we're too quick, and extremely harsh in the way we police our own soldiers.

BY GOD YES! I'm glad to know that we see eye to eye on what should be done about China! They've been total bastards to their own people. Every one of those commie chink generals, and party officials should be dragged into the Hague and made to pay for their.....

Wait, were you talking about America?

International law is a worthless fucking joke. The world is ruled by the strong, and that's the way it will always be. If you don't have nukes, you get invaded when you fuck up(Iraq), if you have nukes or might be close to it(N. Korea, Iran), you're playing an entirely different game. This is why we bribe Pakistan to be our little bitch in the war on terror. It's a cruel world, we're dealing with cruel people, and in some ways we have to get down in the gutter with them to be able to win.

Any investigation or judgement of that is our business, not Germany, and not the United Nations.

I'll take the lack of reply as "You're right, Synikul. I've finally seen the light."

Do you really think that a reversal of my opinions on this kind of thing would even be that sudden? Or that I would not admit to it on some level if it ever did happen? I'm just bored with everything coming down to the same kind of argument is all, it never really goes anywhere either.

No shit, I get bored with it too. That's why I spend more time here White nationalists, Israeli nationalists, European nationalists, democrats, republicans, socialists, communists, muslims, hindus, catholics, pagans, racists, racist-haters...

It's the most chaotic forum I've ever seen, and we all pretty much get along with each other.

I feel so limited on other boards, but I still love this one for some reason.

I'm not one of those people who thinks that the forum has gone down-hill but with the long-term nature of this place we know everyone very well, that's good for laughs and a close-nit community but it doesn't always make for the most stimulating discussion. We need new topics and new members.

New topic: My testicles.

Discuss.

Shriveled, wrinkled, and deformed.

Primative peoples in third-world countries might desire them as a magical totem.

i think this thread is very telling about the kind of terrible people we are. we should be ashamed. but we're not.