http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...369482,00.html

The fact that the US and everyone else doesn't even seem to care is what makes this all the worse.
Welcome to war, where the innocent are treated worse than the enemy.

Car shot full of holes at a checkpoint. Hmmmmm.....I wonder what happened. If the guy with the gun tells you to stop, then fucking STOP!

as much as i hate to..i have to agree with synikul on this one...with all the explosions, suicide bombers, snipers and other...threats to a soldiers life going on over there...would one really expect them to let one of these get through and do more damage?

Did either of you read the actual article?

I did. You would think that the soldiers would have been able to tell the difference between a collision and the vehicle still moving towards them. I don't blame them for their nerves being that keyed up but it's still wrong.

read about what?

that they have to jump through the same hoops as americans when they're trying to deal with anything governmental

how we're the soldiers supposed to know he was running out for pipes, did he not see or hear them through the rain?

why should iraqians get special treatment?

they get money that would be better spent on educating our children or assuring our families have affordable healthcare.

america doesn't belong there...at all!

I must just be reading a different article, the guy went up to a checkpoint and stopped, guy hit him, he got shot.

It doesn't really have much to do with what he bought, or if he heard the soldiers, since the soldiers probably weren't talking to him as he had stopped outside of a checkpoint and was hit by another car and shot for it.

You've completely lost me on jumping through governmental loopholes, I mean are you talking about the family being lied to and there being no acceptance of responsibility?, maybe the way they were laughed at? Does getting shot for being hit by another car whilst stationary have something to do with someone in his family's pension?

That's what I mean by it still being wrong. Regardless of the circumstances behind individual incidences like this the situation is still wrong because our people shouldn't be there in the first place. Good luck getting enough people to acknowledge that to make it count for anything though.

I blame the soldiers, I mean, they don't shoot someone everytime a noise comes from them, surely, they wouldn't get very far like that, there'd be much news coming from Iraq about the vast deaths whenever someone belches or drops something heavy.

I don't know anymore. I couldn't even make up my mind on my last post, which just made Peter look like a twat because he replied before I edited my comment . . . Sorry.

I saw the unclarified version, plus I don't think your post reflects badly on my statement.

I find myself in conflict on that because I don't want anyone on either side to die. Overall, our army should be as carfull as possible to avoid accidently killing civilians but at the same time if they are too carfull they'll get blasted to shit by a car bomb.

Well your conflict probably wouldn't reflect on this particular aticle anyway, unless soldiers are trained to try and shoot explosions, the argument for the whole "nerves" thing would be that they mistook the bang of the collision for a gunshot, which is why neither Synikul's nor Jordyn's first posts in this thread made sense.

Classic example of trying to use effect to find cause, its akin to saying "Guy found dead outside of store, well, he shouldn't have tried to rob the store!", of course, despite the fact that he, well, didn't rob the store, or at least, that's what the article would have stated if we are to draw a comparison, since the article here tells us that the car was stationary.

Of course, we kind of expect this argument from Mr. Only-good-muslim-is-a-dead-one.

Jordyn agreed with this though.

This seems to assume that the car driver was a suicide bomber or a nut, when the article says he was either on his way, or had returned from buying some plastic drainpipes and was 'accidentally' killed, so yes, one would really expect to let one of these through, but they probably wouldn't do any damage, unless of course he had bought the pipes and had made them in to a make-shift pair of nun-chucks to kill soldiers with, however, I'd say that this is probably unlikely.

So I can conclude that neither had read the article, I don't think I was being unreasonable in that conclusion, especially since Jordyn isn't exactly known for assuming every Iraqi is a terrorist even when the article in question states that they weren't.

it happens over here too...sometimes for even less...like being a black man crossing the street in a white neighborhood after maintanence hours...we hear it often on our news about over zealous police officers that have been over worked and high on stress with itchy trigger fingers...do you think those families get quick and concise answers as to the situation that resulted in the death of a family member? they usually get slapped with gag orders and have to deal with the suggestion that their family member's intentions were more sinister than having a flat tire...

i'm not completely dismissing the soldiers for blame for the situation, but it's not entirely their fault either, it was a messed up situation, handled poorly, they make no mention of what happened to the car that rear ended him?

why blame the soldiers exclusively, bush is the one who's responsible...but it's hard to hate the man whose sending billions of dollars into their country, and easier to hate those who are simply doing a job.

Actually you were completely dismissing the soldiers for blame, since you expect them to do nothing less than shoot a car driver for being rear-ended since these soldiers are under so much pressure and simply doing their jobs, their jobs being shooting car drivers for being rear-ended apparantly.

" 'We can't bring him back, but we want them to pay'

Rory McCarthy in Baghdad
Thursday December 9, 2004
The Guardian

It has been nine months since Najim Abdullah Hamid was shot dead as he drove up to a US military checkpoint on his way home.

Despite repeated requests by his relatives, no one from the Iraqi or US military authorities has agreed to investigate or accept responsibility.

His death, at around 9pm on March 7, has gone unnoticed save in the family's small apartment in Saydiya in south Baghdad"


"His younger brother, Ali, was a soldier under Saddam Hussein and his elder brother, Muhammad, worked in the regime's high-level presidential offices, though both still receive pensions."

ulterior motives?

"The family believe their brother stopped when he saw the Americans and the driver behind, who was in a Daewoo saloon car, braked too late and shunted into the back of the Mercedes."

the family believes...

the point is that so many people are going on second hand information and biased accusations that i don't believe anyone knows the exact situation...

what article are you reading?

so the iraqian can be dismissed on family belief and a rainy night, but the soldiers can not?

Come on man, keep that shit in bitch board will ya'? You made a good point, there's no need to tag that on the end of it.

Unless you think its unreasonable to think that the reason the family believe his car was rear ended is because they asked the person who rear-ended him, that would make it first-hand information to the family by the way, as well as first-hand from the soldier, two sources right there, plus going by the article and its sources when the article is what is being discussed is probably better than just guessing what happened based on a car being full of holes.