Hey, I backed up up in the second part of my post... not even a thank you?

Thank you Mr. thefr0g

Dyshade, don't get your history of Ireland from watching Braveheart. If there's one ethnicity that the Irish and the Scottish hate more than the English, it's the Irish and the Scottish. They've been killing each other over every which excuse for thousands of years. It's good sport. Yeah, England's been involved, and occasionally come in and done some repression and hangings and shit, and certainly there's blood on their hand, but to think that the Irish would all be holding hands and singing kumbaya if it weren't for British interference and conspiratorial manipulations just makes you look like a stupid bastard. And to ignore the long history of Catholic vs. Protestant bitterness throughout the British Isles makes you look like an ignorant one.

Sorry bub,
Braveheart was the Scots not the Irish. It has always been about British intervention and rule. Religion came into it as an afterthought and with British backing. Read some of my posts before you gloss over them due to your obvious opinion of my knowledge.

The Provisional Government
of the
Irish Republic
To the people of Ireland.
IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom.
Having organised and trained her manhood through her secret revolutionary organisation, the Irish Republican Brotherhood, and through her open military organisations, the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army, having patiently perfected her discipline, having resolutely waited for the right moment to reveal itself, she now seizes that moment, and, supported by her exiled children in america and by gallant allies in europe, but relying in the first on her own strength, she strikes in full confidence of victory.
We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people. In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty: six times during the past three hundred years[2] they have asserted it in arms. Standing on that fundamental right and again asserting it in arms in the face of the world, we hereby proclaim the Irish Republic as a Sovereign Independent State, and we pledge our lives and the lives of our comrades-in-arms to the cause of its freedom, of its welfare, and its exaltation among the nations.
[i]The Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.
Until our arms have brought the opportune moment for the establishment of a permanent National Government, representative of the whole people of Ireland and elected by the suffrages of all her men and women, the Provisional Government, hereby constituted, will administer the civil and military affairs of the Republic in trust for the people.
We place the cause of the Irish Republic under the protection of the Most High God, Whose blessing we invoke upon our arms, and we pray that no one who serves that cause will dishonour it by cowardice, inhumanity, or rapine. In this supreme hour the Irish nation must, by its valour and discipline and by the readiness of its children to sacrifice themselves for the common good, prove itself worthy of the august destiny to which it is called.


This is the 1916 Irish Proclomation.


Please note that it mentions God twice and says that the Republic would authorize religious liberty.


Once again try reading my past few posts.

Please pay special attention to these few lines within the proclamation here.

Especially where it states(oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government).

I know you are a smart person DM. Just take a closer look at Irish history and you will see that the religious divides have been insinuated into Irish life over hundreds of years and further cultivated in order to make Ireland out to be a chaotic place that needs British rule.

Yeah right because Ireland was chock full of Protestants before the English showed up.

Blame the Italians. If the Romans hadn't come, we'd still all be pagan or something.

the Italians brought civilization to you, be grateful.

Never said I wasn't I <3 civilization, and i <3 Italy.

Not making any claims against you, Dyshade, as Im fairly ignorant on the subject, but wasn't the bulk of the fighting in Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK, as opposed to the Republic of Ireland which issued that proclamation?

Northern Ireland is where most if not all of the British immigrants settled as such a great deal of the fighting has taken place there between the two factions.

In 1916 Ireland fought for their independence and lost once again. The dream of both parties and religious groups is a United Ireland governed by the Irish. The Republic Of Ireland sought freedom for all Ireland.

By the way I know I am bias when it comes to this subject. I hope our British friends here do not take my statements personally against them, it is only their government and its stance on Ireland that I disagree with not the British civilians.

What civilization? We had common law and soap ages before Rome.

The irony is that Catholicism is also an English import. Before English missionaries, Ireland was full of Pagans, but I don't see you blaming the English for that. Perhaps because regardless of their influence on religious beliefs, the Irish are still responsible for their own actions, which entails killing each over religion for far more than these past hundred years.

Dyshade, before you quote their constitution, perhaps you consider that on paper Zimbabwe is a democracy. Saying something isn't enough to make it so.

Y'know, I'm even going to apologize for being hostile in my first post. But let's be real. The Irish blaming the English for all their problems is no different than Black Americans shrugging off all personal responsibility because of slavery and Jim Crow. There's some personal responsibility needed.

They also has no sewage system, roads, or other basic society building blocks.

And wether or not Catholicism is an English import is irrelevant, there wasn't much in the way of protestants before the English showed up to conquer Ireland.

I'd say i'm a little more biased than you!

And trust me, there's not many people here who agree with our government. To be honest, most mainland brits don't give a flying fuck about Ireland being part of the UK or not any more, they just want the fighting to stop.

When you don't live in densely crowded cities, sewage systems would definitely be beneath soap in basic social utility. Common law, contractual law, is also probably more important than aqueducts. And everyone and their mother had roads, the Romans just built much better ones.

Rome did much to spread technologies from one part of the World to another, but it also did much to stifle existing advancements when those were in opposition to the Empire's goals. It's rather more complicated than, "Rome made you civilized, you ingrates".

Define protestantism. There were plenty of anti-Catholic Christians and Pagans. You don't think they simply used a new guise to continue their aggression, with someone else taking a turn as the oppressor/oppressed?