Anyone here into Black Metal? (and no, Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir are not black metal)

-Draconiz

what is considered black metal then?

You want a list?

Satyricon, Darkthrone, Mayhem, Emperor, Immortal, Einherjer, Disiplin, Khold, Windir, 1349 and so on...

I can't define better, search the net, maybe find a "what is black metal" somewhere

www.blackmetal.co.uk maybe...

actually Cradle and Dimmu do fall under the black metal category, JUST not your version of it

welll now there are even all those damn different kinds of black metal.....and so forth.....but yeah

I disagree, Dimmu (the new stuff anyways) are NOT Black Metal! No way... But sure, there a severasl kinds of black metal, old-school, symphonic etc... But Dimmu and Cradle are extreme metal, no way are they black metal...

Black metal rules! Body Count kicks ass! Wait, were they all black?

Einherjer is viking metal.
Yes, I listen to black metal. Satyricon, Darkthrone, Burzum,Immortal, Nargaroth, Nokturnal Mortum,...
Not everybody who calls himself black metal is actually black metal. Dimmu and Cradle (and the whole "Gothic-Black Metal"-shit) areneither from the musicalic nor the ideologic view black metal.

In the "old" days Black Metal was considered "satanic". And so an ode to Satan I imagine.

does Venom count?

Hmm no somehow I think they may be classified under "Cheese".

Cheese maybe, but original cheese, pioneering cheese even.

Dimmu is the only one of the bands above who can pull off that sound worth a shit, so if theyre not black metal....then I dont like black metal, unless Deicide counts...

Yes, Mayhem, Immortal, Emperor, Darkthrone, Dark Funeral, Frost, Anaal Nathrakh!!!

All funky bands, shame the majority of real, kick ass black metal acts have died and either been continued by inferior members or left to rot!

Dimmu Borgir are cool, melodic black metal, COF suck since Mideon! Black Metal + Boy band-esque suits = no go!

L!A!T!E!R!

boy band? pffft

Until they got big, Dimmu and COF were considered black metal. Admit it. If you deny it, you really only prove yourself a liar or a newbie. Get over it. COF admit to not being black metal much anymore, but really they still carry the vibe. They just incorporate non-black elements like goth. Dimmu are still black metal, and anyone who claims they do not have the ideaology are simply experiencing a case of rectal clamp around their head. Dimmu are still Satanic and still fly the black flag. Are you referring to the fact that they are professional and sell records? If still believe that load of BS about black metal not being allowed to sell and how it must sound like crap then your sphincter is really squeezing your throat and cutting off your air. It has always been about selling records. Otherwise the bands never would have put any out. And guess what, the elitism is something endorsed more by the fans than the bands. Many of them listen to and are influenced by non- black metal bands. Non-metal bands even. Listen to "A Forest" on Carpathian Forest's Black Shining Leather album. It's a Cure song, and they didn't even make it brutal.

I would also like to put to rest the whole "were Venom black metal debate". Damn straight they were. People say they were really only thrash, and that just because they put out an album titled Black Metal doesn't mean they were. No, it doesn't. What made them black metal was their sound, style and imagery. Do you think the Norwegians were churning out their Satanic music before Venom? In fact, the Norwegians did not invent it, and were largely inspired by bands like Venom, Celtic Frost and Bathory (the latter two being inspired by Venom). Venom's music was loud, fast and brash. The sound was raw and primal. Their lyrics were largely Satanic as was their imagery. The term black metal was coined to describe bands like Venom, who differed from the rest of the metal scene in their over the top use of this imagery and sound. Hell, you may as well claim Death were not death metal, they just used it for their name.

I think Black Metal should not be reduced to the "satanic" image. There are a lot of BM bands who are not satanic. Black Metal is about hate and misanthropy. Satan can here be used as a symbol -> "our gods became your satan, so satan became our god" (Necromantia). BM can be influenced by satanism (which is, IMO, the most boring version of it), but also by Paganism or National Socialism (-> as a result of paganism and misanthropy). The early works of Dimmu and COF were black metal, and I think no one denies it. But if you listen to nowadays Dimmu Borgir, you won't find any hate in the music. Or at least not the hate that makes black metal what it is. The production is too... artificial. The number of copies they sell and the fact that their videos are shown on MTV give proof that they are no longer carrying the "spirit" of the early 90ies in their music. Black Metal should never be part of mass-media music business.
"FUCK OFF TO NOWADAYS BLACK METAL!!" (Kanwulf)

I think this whole discussion is very tiring.

"Are you into black metal, but no Dimmu Borgir and Cradle of filth (because they are NOT Black metal)" who THE FUCK cares? why is it so important to underline that these two bands are no black metal?

Death cult armageddon: In the basis they remain black metal enriching their sound with many other elements and so they create something NEW. I dont understand who needs another Darkthrone copy nowadays whose music "carries the spirit of the early 90ies"??
Like it or hate it but stop telling such unqualified nonsense like "you wont find any hate in their music" unless you are dealing with it.


Silenoz once stated that in their early days they wanted to be a part of the black metal scene but soon found their own way of creating music.

"Limitations do not exist when you are ahead of the crowd" Death cult armageddon

90 % of all BM just sucks, and a lot of fans are idiots as well. On the one hand, we have the elitist purist scumbags, who appose all 'trendy' things ( that is, anything of which more than 18 copies are sold and anything with keyboards as " BM should be raw ", forgetting momentarily that even back in the days Burzum and Emperor did, in fact, use keyboards ) and praise every fucking shitty Darkthrone clone band that doesn't even come close to their early works' genius ( case in point: satanic warmaster, deathspell omega, all 3 of the pest's, leviathan from the us, and some more ). On the other hand, we have the people who think they are into BM merely becasue of Dimmu and CoF. Yes, they incorporate BM elements, no, they are not 'pure' BM. They never have been in fact. The reason they were once considered BM and aren't any more is because people will just take over others opinions like sheep. As unfortunate as it is, not all black metallers are the self thinking individuals that are praised so much by BM ideology.
As for Venom, I've never heard them being called thrash. Speed metal or NWOBHM I can understand but thrash ? Funny thing by the way apostate, how you say you want to put the argument to rest and then throw some more fuel to the fire

Dimmu Borgir is not black metal not because they sell records, but because they
have lost all sense of "spirit" in their music. There are no darkness in their music
anymore. They even (once) played with pagan lyrics and themes, but now they
invert the pagan symbol just to be "evil", something they really fail! They fail in
sending out a simple message because they disguise it as intelligent just because
they use complicated words... But they don't have any true meaning behind them.
The "big deal" is that Dimmu Borgir has lost all sense of grim black metal, yet they
call themselves black metal, just because they are so satanic and evil (which is a
selling trick maybe? I won't judge that)

I honestly don't care, yet it annoys me when people say "I love black metal, dimmu
are so evil and true, fuck all those poser shits who like darkthrone, they just
say that dimmu is sellout because they don't manage to sell records on their own"

And no! it isn't always about making money!! THAT is sellout. Making music and
releasing it is a way of expressing the art you have made, not make money!