where do our desires, passions, etc. come from? are they natural, unnatural, or supernatural? are all desires equal, or are some desires more privileged? what does the word desire even mean?

i'm completely stumped on this one. i think descartes wrote it off to a gland in the brain but i'd like a second opinion, i guess.

anything beyond basic food and shelter has to do with sex and societal pressures

but then is is simply human nature? do we feel desires like animals do? you see, i agree that what we want might just be what our nature dictates, but is the nature by which we want it insignificant?

Oooh, I can go on and on and on about the Philosophy of Desire. In fact, the bookstore I work at carries a book by William Irvine (a professor of mine during my college years) about desire (a course I took with him). But, I need to get ready for work...so, I'll return later.

I am not sure I follow the last part of the question. Are you asking if we can be conditioned to desire things not necassarily dervied from our natural instinct. As far as the others yes its human nature and yes we feel desire just like an animal (this is because we are animals) Desire is a very primative instinct reinforced physicaly by eindorphin rush. Humans add alot more rational into it, we consider things like consequence, however that desire is very powerful and more often then not we disobey better judgement. Better judgement being - jeoperdizing health, sex, food, shelter - most noteably through societal ostricizing

but can't we desire something more? surely we have desires other animals do not... i assume you agree that we think differently than other animals, then maybe i wonder if desire isn't related to intelligence? not primitive desires, but the deeper passions of our soul.

when you say soul i assume your speaking metaphoricaly, even so what would those be?

our desires in my opinion are made more complex by the society which has evolved but the basis for them are no more no less then those shared by animals.

desire for something in my opinion is in no way related to intelligence, however unlike some animals we can supress desires

Clever title by the way...

Anywho, as I stated earlier, a professor of mine wrote a book concerning desire, but I haven't purchsed it because it's thirty fuckin' dollars and I didn't like him that much. But I did take his course on desire however.

As burning bush stated, desire for the most part is related to the instinctual nature of our being. However, there is something to be said about desires evolution through intelligence and, as burning bush states, the complexities of society.

The psychological make-up of humanity is vastly different than 99% of all the species on earth. How many species desire: Sex for pleasure? Art? Entertainment? Enlightenment? Intelligence? The fruits of its society?

An ant's colony is busy, busy, busy, busy. The collect multiple pounds of food, but only use it to satisfy certain desires: namely--to eat, so as to sustain energy for work, so as to live comfortably.

Humans, on the other hand, eat what they eat to satisfy many desires. Why?

Unlike the majority of species littering this planet, humans have sentience and an idea of self. An ant's desire is met with an objective approach, and like all the other ants of its colony, the desire is matched and equaled to all its brothers and sisters...and even then, ant A's desire is the same as ant B's desire.

Yet, humans aren't like that. I love seafood, heavy metal music, comic books, horror movies; I smoke, I like wine and whiskey and dark beer; I love strawberry milk; I'm not a fan of chocolate...and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Why aren't our desires the same?! And even if they're similar, such as we both love comic books, why do I desire to collect alternative/gothic comics and you desire Marvel?

I think ants are a more specialized eater then us, just as the rest of your examples compared to other species man has a greater diversity of abailties some do to intellect some to the thumb ect. I also think that many of our differing desires are based on experince and upbringing, for example if your mom gets sick the first time she eats seafood and as a result she dislikes it and nurtures that dislike into you is it really indicative of you not desireing seafood.

Art, music, entertainment those are the good ones on the surface they appear to refute the instinctual desires but I wonder. in there creation - I think in argument can be made that they contribute to the root of desire and yet they are a little something more

The burningbush said
I don't agree with that . Experience maybe but upbringing , no . At least not with me . My desires are the total opposite from the way I was brought up .
Maybe it's marking my own territory or the need , for me it's a need , to be different then all the other " sheep " running around chasing the latest hype .
I never understood that , that need to be the same as everybody else . Dress alike , think alike , eat alike , talk alike , buying the same things . Looking like forms fresh out of the cookie cutter .

Fantasy is Desire / Desire is Fantasy

too true. but if desire and fantasy are one and the same, what's fantasy? it changes the question but doesn't asnwer it.
i'll think on it...

Youre saying all this and you have "Goth" in your name... I dont understand, we're you under the assumption that Goth is somehow not cookie cutter bullshit? If anything its more rigidly cookie cutter than people who act like A&F models.

in a sense, we're all just cookies from a cutter. whether you choose a common shape or a rare one, you're still delicious. dig?

You can think I am whatever you to. I really dont care. I chose the name because my name is actually Billy and I have a fondness for I am gonna ge tmine attitude that the real Billy the kid had.

You claim to be unique ad yet you chose a distinct and rigid sub-culture title FOR YOURSELF. Am I the only one who sees the irony of that? Surely you can see the sillyness in claiming to be differnt then claiming to be and feel gothic, what a joke.

in all fairness, billy, we all choose one for ourselves. however, we're all unique - even the ones who seem most stereotypical. i wonder what you think when you read my screen name? does it leave much to the imagination?

I didnt think anything of cour screenname. Your screen name is not as ordinary as "goth"whatever. I didnt consider your screen name until; I read your posts. Just like I didnt really consider this gothdutchdevas name until I read her post about being differnt than everyone else and calling the rest of us sheep. Yeah I am a sheep because I dont spend tons of money on buying into an image you can get form hot topic (ahem which is owned by GAP).

i think in lots of ways everyone is a sheep, and in a few ways nobody is. it's interesting how two opposite things can be simultaneously true, if you think about it hard enough. i guess it depends on context.

as always, i don't think being a goth makes you unique, but it doesn't prevent you from being unique. wow, you're rubbing off on me, billy. my own wishy-washiness is starting to piss me off. it's like most of what i say doesn't really take up one side of the argument. then again, in my opinion, most times neither side is completely right. hmmm...