Source: Karl Marx, "A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy"

Any thoughts or Opinions on this quote... ?

My Opinion, i believe its an accurate statement.
We are a product of our environment - therefore our scoial existance determines our understanding of consciousness.
And, while we are a product of our environment, we do have some limited power to change our social existance, which can therefore lead to a change in our comprehension of our own consciousness.

Hm. Wow. A thread thats worth posting. I agree. I would give more insight if my mind was working tonight.

Yep nurture over nature.

I personally agree about nurture vs. nature. Is man born with consciousness? Don't know. The social existance, along with healty doses of stress, peer pressure, drugs and alcohol, tend to mold the consciousnesses of a great many people in this world.

We're talking abotu conciousness as if it were the same thing as personality. Personality is shaped, of course. But conciousness is natural, you can't say a babe is born unconcious, if so, then why does it cry? I think conciousnes, as i just described it, shapes reality. Reality, in turn, shapes personality. Either that, or my presnece in thsi thread has officially made it go to crap.

Okay, new way of thinking about Marx's quote...

Replace conciousness with Intelligence, and see how it reads to you.
While we can educate our selves thru intellect, understanding, and comprehension on a larger scale... our lives in part are planned.
The social enviroments of our parents, peers, and the outside world effects us to determine our existance. While we are all unique individuals, we are all in essence a product of our environement

So, do we then help shape this environemnt which we exist in thru our unique individualism OR does the enviroment in which we exist help shape our individualism ?
Do we shape the environment, or does it shape us ?

Finally, are there any people who would support an anti-marxist ideology out there ?

Of course people are going to dislake the Marxist ideology! Anyhoo, I think that they influence eachother ina semi-equal fahion.

Sorry, i didnt phrase that well...
Yes, obviously there are people who dislike the theorys of Marx,
i was interested in hearing their argument/ideas from any of these - if there happen to be any on this forum.

And, while i'd agree some doctrines / ideologys do influence each other im not sure exactlly what Guy is trying to get at here.
I would think, that generally speaking, Capitalism is the rough opposite of Marxism - it could probably be represented thru Yin - Yan.

So, if Marxism & Capitalism influence each other in a semi-equal fashion, as proposed by Guy, what are the similiar properities here... can anyone elaborate on this ?

Ah, nothing like philosophical conversation at 1:30 in the morning...

I believe that in using the term 'conciousness', Marx is speaking of not only our self-awareness, but our awareness of the world around us and our ability to interact with it. In essence I think what Marx says is true. We are enabled to act by the knowledge we receive. That includes, but is not limited to, our family upbringing, education, our social circle...myriad other details as well. Despite what Marx may think, I believe that conciousness on a spiritual level is also a positive influence. Not necessarily organzied religion, just a firm grasp upon the nature of our spirituality and who we are in relation to the rest of the universe.
I believe that would lie more in the realm of Nietzsche.

Would a person be able to elevate themself beyond their means without the proper outside influence? Possibly, but the road would be much more difficult.

Shadowborn

Marxism, like so many other ideas, looks good on paper. It even works in real life trials, on a small scale. However, socialism breaks down once it reaches a certain population level. The same problem can be seen with Democracy.

As far as the similiarities between Marxism and Capitalism go, they both seek to provide an environment where the individual can excel. In Socialism we see this done by the elimination of the proletariat, the equalization of the social classes. In capitalism we have the legal freedom for one to advance socially by whatever means are available.

The differences of course are in the motivations. Socialism obviously is a group-oriented philosophy. Capitalism allows similar advancement, but tends to stress individual achievement rather than group effort. Others may have differing opinions on the matter than myself, of course.


Shadowborn

As far as i was aware, Marxism has never actually been implemented anywhere in the world, its only ever existed in Theory. Communism, Stalinism, and possibly even Marx-Leninism may have been, but i dont believe Marxism as such, which is where alot of others have their foundations in.
But, on the same note - that is one major draw back in Marxism, its never actually existed, so its all good in theory.


As far as the similiarities between Marxism and Capitalism go, they both seek to provide an environment where the individual can excel. In Socialism we see this done by the elimination of the proletariat, the equalization of the social classes. In capitalism we have the legal freedom for one to advance socially by whatever means are available.
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While these are both, i think, partly correct.. i believe its more,
Capitalism provides an environment for the economy to grow - not necessarily the individual, as it could of course be a Corporation, which has just as many legal rights as an individual to exist.
And Marxism, an environment for society to grow.
From my understanding of Marxism, an individual's ability to excel is limited by only its Society's ability to excel and grow.

Beyond every ideology or belief system we may have, whether it be Capitalism, Marxism, Theology, Socialism, communism etc, they are all based on an assumption of 'like-minded individuals'. We are not all alike, we are all individuals... therefore the idea of a nation, let alone a world of 'like-minded individuals' will never actually exist...
So Chaos will reign.
or will it ?
And Society will be a Uptopia.