in my opinion and experience, people make their own lives. we are born, raised by parents, getting a base structure from them(no different than any other animal)but we have a wonderful thing called free thinking, conscience thought and a whole realm of feelings and emotions...some people it seems do not choose to use these gifts that set us apart from our fellow beast, but find it easier to placidly plod along life, doing what they are told they have to do and never really being happy for it, and in some cases taking a very negative approach towards life, thinking they have to be this or that to be liked by who they want to accept them, rahter than let the fates guide them on their own path...other people strive to break the mold, to reach beyond the box to see "what's out there" and taking the strength of discovery to push them on to even greater heights of well being and knowledge..to quote the blank rune...to leap empty handed into the void, leaving your fate to the gods...i am curious what decides the difference in mind sets...what inspires people to be explorers or followers?

ah so you believe in free will...many do not...thats a philosophical debate that will still be going after i've found out what the other side looks like.

Free will- I believe in it.
You are often influenced by what those around you do..
It also has to do with intelligence..

what does it take for a person to break free of "those around them" to let them experience free will...

do you think someone controls your will?

Not control it, but things can definitely alter it and crush it

Unless this is the usual "become one with the left hand path" crap then you`re talking of people with character. Suffering aids that if it isnt already ingrained inside them by their parents.

It also takes a certain level of independent thought.

If you're not an independent enough thinker or have enough confidence in your own beliefs then you'll be trapped in the group ideal and follow their rules because you don't know any better.

Some people are quite happy to trundle along and have no interest in knowing what's outside the box.

The whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude.


The last time I decided to push the envelope and move outside the box the whole stationery cupboard nearly tipped over on me

nice metaphor

i'm not sure what you're saying red, but aids patients are no different than anyone else...they can either decide to mope on the fact that they will not live long, spiraling down a path of despair and negativity, or they can take steps to make the rest of their life mean something to themselves and those around them...when i die i'd want to be able to look back at my life and say i lived, rather than look back and find it as boring as a documentry on making...taffy.

on a second note...what do you think creates character...the persons environment or their mindset?

Suffering aids it, not suffering AIDS.

Environment for the most part creates mindset from birth but on a case by case basis in adult life its up to the individual how to deal with things. They can alow it to weaken them or try and learn from it and become stronger....hard to build yourself up without a good foundation though.

I think he meant aids as in helps

A bit of both in answer to your q Jordy

yes it is, but it's a persons choice if they want to put he effort forth to climb out of the hole their foundation gave them or use it as an excuse for all negatives in their life...the best way to resolve cons is to identify them, accept them and then change them, only a person can do that for themself...not all the advice in the world can help...not even magick

Its not just a choice between advice and leaving them to themselves. Helping to change their behaviour patterns and thought processes is possable in some cases. We could just dump the whole idea of support groups for alcoholics and tell them to pull themselves together but it just wont work.

that's exactly why those groups work, people want to go there because they've accepted they have an issue and they want to do something about it...a person asking for help for a problem is not a fool...a person not seeking help is...no one can do it alone, but only that person can do it! do you see what i'm trying to say, to use an old cliche...god helps them who help themself...

I agree with Jordan Red sorry! *self flaggelates for being a traitor to the athiest cause* not about the God bit but certainly I believe people who ignore the help or love of others just because they have problems are foolish in the extreme. You can't help people who won't help themselves.

Isn't one of the main problems with people who won't/can't help themselves the fact that they can either not see (the forest for the trees) the problem or thay don't have the tools to know how to cope with it?

damnit i'm turning into an agreeing machiene. Agreed soulfull....But when a persons depressed (as i have been) it's not like you don't notice..it takes quite a lot to just say hey can anyone help? especialy if you have a very low opinion of other ppl but what have you got to lose?

Or you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink? ........ah or (adapted cliche) it takes a will to find a way. Yeah I can agree with that.

The fact that you look for a solution outside yourself is what breaks the cycle. I wonder who has the highest rate of depression, less intelligent people or more intelligent ones?
Of course it is considered physiological, however I believe we do have the ability to regulate our secreations to a certain extent......(now I've left the door open)