I am totally capable.

under the proper circumstances, i would be very capable of killing another human being. in fact, i almost want to, deep down.

I am more then capable, probably more then any of you have ever considered.

I voted yes because, that's all think about. Sometimes you can find me sitting beside the highway with a knife in my hand, it's because I want to stab your car.

well anybody is capable of having to kill someone. but with proper circumstances. but depending on what is happening between you and that somebody. which made you push yourself way over your limits. i know that i am capable of doing it.

but i don't have the stomach for it. my stomach would feel as if it's dropped a bomb from the inside of myself and my conscience would really be bothering the fuck out of me.


i'm sure that all of us and i do mean everyone. has had a mentle image of having to kill someone but most of us wouldn't act upon it from that mentle image.

the most of us would brush it off of our shoulders and ignore having to do it. instead they go about their normal and regular day with our moral behavior..

my second thought part 2.

but if i was in a bad situation and i was in the right. as in having to protect myself. i would say yes....but only to that.

None of you get it...

All of you are living in your safe little fantasy world.

You are already killers. You kill everyday. Every day you buy a killed chicken that someone else killed FOR you: you are a killer.

Every day you but a hamburger made of dead meat from a living animal that someone killed FOR you... you are a killer.

Every day you eat a tomatoe that someone pickesd FOR you: you are killing all the living seeds in it, which could have sprouted and lived if you hadn't killed and eaten it.

Every living thing you kill to eat: makes you a killer of LIFE and of living things.

None of you are capabable of an intelligent discussion on the ethics and morals of killing because none of you are ready to admit that all of you are already killers.

You have this aversion to killing a living humn... but nothing else?

So?

This logic is insane. It means that killing every other living thing on Earth EXCEPT human beings is okay.

But without trees which you kill everyday when you use poper products, and without all the living tjongs on Earth today which you ignore:

How can you live?

The only reason you are alive is because other living things SUPPORT YOUR LIFE.

But... you do NOTHING to support or nuture other living things.

In fact: all of you would be better off dead.

If every human being was killed: the entire Earth would be HAPPIER and HEALTHIER than it is now.

You seem to think the Earth is designed to support your meaningless existence.

It is not. It will never support people like you.

BY taking all other living things for granted... and ignoring the fact that all of you kill living things every day: your question becomes meaningless and pointless.

You ask a stupid question: 'could you kill someone'?

You do not put your question into any context.

What if you were in a room with a very muscular person who hated your guts? And wanted to kill you? What if there was only one knife in that room?

Would yoube able to wrestle that person away from the knife, and then take that knife and KILL HIM with it>? eh? eben though you did not hate them? Just to insure your pointless survival?

Because if you don't... he SURE AS HELL WILL KILL YOU.

So try it. Do the experiment. Put two people in a room with only one knife. Tell them nobody will be allowed out until one of them kills the other.

Then you have a choice: either one of you kills the other and lives... or both of you do not kill each other and both of you starve to death... slowly.

After you have done this experiment: THEN come back and tell us if you are capable of killing... or if you never come back: then we will mercifully not have to listen to this adolescent rambling of spoiled consumer kids ,who do not have the faintest notion of what they are speaking of.

i'm glad turak found us here, i'm finally starting to see the light.

what have i been doing all this time? i've been killing grass by walking on it, protozoa by digesting in im the water i drink, swallowing spiders while i sleep and think of all the food i eat! all those lives destroyed for my existence! oh tuna fish! oh tomatoe! oh bacon and lettuce! damn my perverted desire for delicious food!

oh, how foolish to consider a human life better than a tomatoe. oh, i see it all so clearly now. think, really think, like turak is telling us, about cutting a baby's head open and making a sandwich. it looks like a tomato, doesn't it? coincidence or something more?

christ, we need to stop eating the world or else, before long, there'll be no food left to eat! jesus, it's all so obvious when i think about it. what've i been doing all my life!!!

oh, it's so true, i'm so worthless by virtue of my poor luck at being born into a normal 1st world life. why couldn't i have been a tomato? at least i wouldn't have been evil. at least i would have had that.

i'll wake up every day now and realize that i shoudln't think about hard questions since i'm privileged, stuck up and already so far twisted from the good path that my very thought process is a perversion of nature. i am not a part of nature, humanity is unnatural. omg! the light!

oh, oh yes, it's such a warm feeling to finally know the truth. it's like a warm blanket that helps me plant beans with the others who've seen the light, though it's cold out and i'm stark naked (clothes? christ jesus.) oh damn it, the world is such a precious place, it makes me sad that i'm even here to take care of it - all these years of taking from the world without giving back.

but wait! omg! dogs and cats are evil too! we've made them evil and they must be eliminated! all they do is eat other living things! they're like death machines! well, i'll know what to do to all the kittens i see from now on. isn't it marvelous how much wisdom can be derived from such a small collection of non-contradictory facts of life? of nature?

in fact, i might go so far as to start worshipping turak. he must have spoken directly to god, and anyone who disagrees does not have an education and should research some facts. one cannot know what is absolutely right or wrong without having that wisdom imparted directly by god. hence, either turak has spoken with god directly, or is the g-man himself. i never believed in god before, but i believed such rash things! that eating was ... good? that... the world existed for our benefit? that... the strong would triumph over the weak? that... thought is possible unless hypothetical situations cease to be hypothetical by direct experience? these vague ideas are now so laughable to me as to be dismissable.

oh, i used to wish my existence had meaning, used to wonder whether or not my existence was even debatable. now i know that, simultaneously, neither does it matter if i exist nor does it have any meaning, and moreover that even thinking about it makes me evil.

in my musings i've realized that mathematics is evil, vague abstract ideas used only to perpetuate our meaningless existence on this naturally superior planet. it is invented by evil beings to evil ends and is thus the devil's plaything.

philosophy, too, is wrongheaded since we all know what is true (if you didn't before, you do now, thanks to our god king, turak) and anything else is just the meaningless result of our generation's being lied to by evil consumerist capitalist money-pandering, murdering, selfish and generally evil overlords.

however, our benign leader does leave us just enough (just enough) leeway in interpreting his absolute, eternal and unwavering truths, that is, while saying what's wrong with the world, he leaves it to us to determine what is right. he tells us we're wrong without giving away the answer, thus setting us in the right direction without (explicitly) dictating the future of forumkind. bravo, duca! bravo, maestro! i see a definite parallel between turak's not telling us what to do and his giving creatures 'free will'. he gives us a nudge, but it has to be us that does it. then he can nod in approval and we can die fulfilled.

turak, ascend back to heaven, i will spread your gospel. go taste the nectar and ambrosia of heaven and wait for us, your disciples, to ascend to live with you forever and ever in the eternal and overarching luminescence of your ultimate omnipotence and total omniscience.

turak, god among men, departs for the heavens. so it was in the second coming of the lord.

Wait a minute here, when I studied Moral Philosophy, I can't recall anything that argued that the QUOTE-UNQUOTE murder of non-sentient, non-emotional beings (like carrots and apples) brought with it a questionable morality. However, I'm sure there are some fanatics out there arguing just that...but things die, things should and must die, and things survive from said death...death is a natural occurence, morality is not.

In another thread, you ridiculed someone by asking them if they've read any Nietzsche, and now I'm asking the same of you. For in all my years studying Nietzsche from a heavily focused Nietzschian school of thought, I was always under the impression that morality was nothing more than a human construct. And human constructs are absurd and inane when in regards to the natural order of things. Sure, morals exist, but only in as much as we are sentient beings with a highly charged emotional context and the ability to reason with abstract thought.

Ergo, from your argument, I can easily argue the point that because humans are so grand, that because humans have transcended nature, we have every right to belittle nature and use it as we see fit. We are the masters of this world...it belongs to us. For after all, is that not a question of morals, and not a question of nature?

So if you want to argue our ignorance through some half minded philosophical principle pertaining to what is morally questionable, which again is just really understanding the full scope of human transcendence over nature...then I can just easily ridicule you for your ignorance, for obviously you yourself haven't fully grasped the 'nature' of human transcendence.

Let me bring some logic into your rambling:

The tomato does not need you to exist. It can exist perfectly fine without you killing it.

You... on the ohter hand... DO need that tomato. In fact you are addicted to killing that tomato over and over again.

You NEED millions and billions of things to exist at all.

Without them: you would DIE.

The scientific facts of ecosystems that are pyramidal in nature PROVE this. The Dynamics of ALL pyrmaidal hierarchical constructs are this:

The higher up you are on the pyramid: the more you need the base to support your existence.

However... the base does NOT NEED YOU my friend... It does NOT WANT YOU my friend... in fact it hates your guts my friend.

The Dynamics of hierarchical civilization is the same. The Queen of England is a perfect example. Once you get to the top of ANY system: YOU BECOME USELESS. You become a huge LIABILITY. You become HATED.

What good is the Queen of England to England? She owns millions of acres of prime real estate. She owns entire castles and mansions. The Government has to use BILLIONS of dollars just so she can sit on her royal ass and do NOTHING. Billions of pounds that could be better spent on the people who EARNED that money. She is an obsolete anachronism. She is an eyesore.

She NEEDS the entire British Nation to even exist. The entire Nation can do perfectly fine without her.

If any of all the millions of precious consumer articles to which you are accustomed to disappears from the shelves... you will begin to become OUTRAGED that your hitherto-accustomed consumer lifestyle has been so rudely disrupted...

What? No more fish on the market? HOW COME! I LIKE EATING FISH!

er... oh. You mean 7 billion people eating fish had detsroyed all the fisihing grounds and all the fish are AXTINCT. DEAD. GONE. Because of your stupid spoiled lifestyle.

You are just another arrogant consumer falling from the Empire State building... As you are passing the 10th floor: You shout out gleefully to the person watching you fall from the window...:

'So FAR... SO GOOD!'

If you do not understand that the world's ecosystems are not designed to support 7 BILLION CONSUMERS LIKE YOU: then there is nothing I can say to you.

China is now trying to copy YOUR consumer life style MY FRIEND...

Do you have any effing idea what will happen to you, if one BILLION Chinese start driving cars, EH?

You will DIE from it.

Recently: a scientist found pollution in the air coming infrom the pacific ocean into malibu. He could not figure it out, so he hired planes and took air samples from the trade winds that blow across the Pacific ocean:

He found the source of the pollution. It was coming from CHINA.

So, if you go to California, and go on the BEACH... you will not be breathing clean air anymore my friend: you will be breathing polluted air. Not pollution from Los Angeles, MY FRIEND... but from CHINA.

When the pollution which YOUR lifestyle creates: becomes so bad that there is nowhere on the Earth you can go without coughing... and DYING from it.

Maybe THEN you will begin to re-thing you consumer arrogance MY FRIEND:

But by then: it will be TOO LATE my friend. Then you will be DEAD my friend...

The only leg you have to stand on as far as your logic is concerend: is that you are not dying from your own pollution and your own consumption YET.

YOUR brand of smugness: is this:

'Hey!@ I'm all right now, JACK. Let my children worry about it... I'M not dying from my lifestyle YET...'

I'll only start dying from it when I develop cancer in about twenty years! WHO CARES! FUCK DA FUTURE! FUCK DA PAST!'

And what is the result of your generation's refusal to look at the scientific facts?

crazed, screaming memees... insane empty souls... desperately trying to justify that they are so dark! so evil! So non-conformist! What a load of crap.

You are just like all the other white ciollar consumers MY FRIEND.

You should pat all the people who do not like on the back and say to them:

'Hey! I'm a consumer too! W'ere all the same! W'ere all trying to get our jollies!'

As for the rest of your illogical drivel: you are reacting MUCH TOO VIOLENTLY... to a few simple scientific facts.

Methinks you doth protest too much, eh?....

Dear boy:

Nobody can argue against you: you do not have an opinion of your own.

When you say that you are 'under the impression that'

You are confessing that you have been impressed. In other words: you are merely regurgitating the impression that was made upon you. You are a blank sheet. Anyone can make an impression on you.

What will make the most impression on you?

If the police kick down your door and drag you off to prison: will that make an impression on you?

Furthermore> you say: 'I can argue'

Why should you argue about anything? You have no opinion of your own to start with. You want to argue someone else's opinion? What for?

I'll tell you what for: just as a way to waste time. Just as a timewaste. Nothing else.

Why don't you argue about your ass being purple? Argue about anything you want to.

But do not try to argue with me. Argue with someone else who wants to waste their time arguing just like you. There is no point in arguing with a person who has no conviction, no opinion, no uindestanding, no logic, no morals, and no ethics. That is like arguing with nothingness.

Which is exactly what you are. You are the living persona of nothingness.

Nietzsche predicted people like you would appear over 156 years ago.

He said:

'Rather than want nothing: man wants nothingness'

Look at yourself in the mirror. The reason you are obsessed with everything Nietzsche wrote is because he predicted you... he hated you, he could not accept the fact that ipeople like you would even exist.

Didn't Nietzsche dream about fucking his sister? I usually discount freaky men that fantasize about incest as douchebag wankers. But that's just me.

let's.

does it cease to exist when i kill it? what ceases to exist when it dies? define this 'life' thing you're talking about and why i should care.

the tomato needs the nutrients from dead things in the soil. so it eats stuff that dies too. would it be alright to eat tomatoes if i wait till they die and then eat only the dead ones? especially if i spit out the seeds? or crap in the lawn? don't seeds exist in fruits TO HELP SPREAD THEM.

so does the tomato, miracle of life. even bacteria, the simplest lifeforms, bacteria, would be seriously evil in your book since all they do is kill other cells.

see above.

so all top-rung predators are just as evil as we are? what about primates, sharks and lions? and isn't there always a top of the pyramid, unless you do away with the whole pyramid? realistically?

/\ - bacteria (living)
/_\ - people (living)
/__\ - tomatoes (living)
/___\ - rotten plant and animal matter (dead)

there's always a top.

well, ecosystems are really cyclical more than strictly pyramids, but... every step is just as crucial as the next. ok, tomatoes don't need us, specifically, but they do need nutrients from the soil, which, ironically, come from us and other dead animal and plant matter.

i won't argue that the base of a pyramid doesn't need the top, but try removing the human race from planet earth. instead of us overpopulating the planet, fish, chickens and cattle would. ie, it's a food chain (or web) - remove an important enough player and the others are in deep shit.

false. the queen of england is not hated. she is actually well loved, or, like you said, she wouldn't be the queen. she is a positive figurehead of england or whatever and as such has a useful role on an academic, political, and societal level. she lives like that because people want to have her live that way, and as such, she is performing her civic duty.

she is a symbol. a symbol which comforts the people. tradition can be very comforting. comfort is something we all need.


would england sink into the sea if she were to one day be thrown in the gutter? no. doesn't mean it should happen. if the people want to do it, they will. simple as that. they don't want to do it because she is a benign parental figurehead.


i can just flat out disagree with this. years ago when they pulled 'surge' from the shelves, i was upset, but it didn't change my life or anything. i mean, sounds like you're blowing things out of proportion. just because i use products doesn't mean they dictate my existence.

though i agree that our killing ALL the fish IN THE WORLD would be a bad thing, or even an entire species of fish, it wouldn't upset me that much. ecosystems have a way of rebuilding themselves. nature is resilient. plus, we'll always have SOME fish. we have fish farms.

still, i'm not following you. we should not eat the fish so that they're still around to eat? sounds like a catch 22 to me.

both unsubstantiated and completely ludicrous. at the rate things are going now, i'll never have to worry about hitting the bottom, and, as somebody once said, it's not jumping off a building that scares me, it's hitting the ground.

how many people is the earth 'designed' to support, moses? i won't argue that the more of us there are, the tighter competition will become, but when we reach the peak, there will be famine and billions will die (hopefully in poor places) and the human population will be controlled by hunger. we can't do permanent damage to the earth (short of destroying it with nuclear bombs, and even then i suspect some life would survive).

say china DOES start using BILLIONS of cars. the earth's climate will change, billions will starve, etc. etc. etc. and then the world population might be a few million and civilization will start over. or humanity will be wiped out. life might be wiped out. so what. boo hoo. you win some, you lose some.

tell ya what, if i get cancer in 20 years from pollution or holes in the ozone layer, i'll buy you a drink.

please feel free to show us how much u referenced your facts. in fact, step back from facts and prove to me that anything you're saying should be listened to. i could recite rules for differentiating functions, right now, and they might be right, but... well, i guess much of it would be just as relevant as what you post.

that's right, whenever you argue against people, you protest just enough, and whenever i protest against your ravings, i'm protesting too much. i'll admit, even i'm astounded i even care at all what your inane posts say anymore. maybe i just enjoy this.


turak, what upsets me most is that i'm sure you'd be capable of abstract thought if you tried. let's just do a little example to prove you can think. ok? something outside your ... comfort? ... zone, so that you might be cold and calculating about it. alright: ex nihilo nihil fit: out of nothing nothing comes to be. discuss.