i say theres a difference between selfness and selfishness, i say let the chips fall where their may, damn the man take a stand...fuck a lamb. Not concentrating on the absurd uselessness of consciousness and existentialism you have a decision to follow your freedom or be wallowed and delighted in self-deception, which i prefer. Values make life and values rise from our actions as partridges do from the grass beneath our feet.

Existentialism and Nihilism aren't even close to being similar. Existentialism says that, as human beings, we have the responsibility to fully weigh the impact of every decision we make, because everything we do effects someone or something else. It also says that there is no such thing as a "right" choice, so the only way to make the best decisions is to be aware of your surroundings and make the choice that will have the least amount of negative effects. Nihilism, on the other hand, is something I don't quite see as being even close to obtainable.. I mean, the destruction of everything so that there is only nothingness? If you destroy everything, there's nothing there, and no one to prove that there is nothing... meaning, no way to prove that there ever was anything in the first place, which just nullifies the whole act of destroying.

Existentialism, my understanding anyway, is more about the importance of proving you exist and flexing that fact. How do we flex our existence? I have no idea. Figuring out how to do that is half of what the whole thing is about.

Chopenhauer said that the simpler something is, the less existence it contains, the more complicated something is, the more existant it is. Not that you really have to, he says, but it's probably a good idea, if you want to prove you exist, to live in a complicated way. And if you don't care whether you exist or not, go live in a monastery or tend to an obscure shrine, or just be living ooze. Better yet, be non--living ooze.

Nihilism, as I understand it, however is about meaninglessness. Where an Existentialist would say "The only thing that matters is whether or not we exist," the nihilist would say "nothing matters."

Well life is nothing, so it is very complicated I suppose. Can't argue too much with that.

but if something exists it can't be nothing...and life certainly exists due to it's level of complication

Killy--the idea that complicated things are more existant simple things is a proto-existentialist idea. It is certainly NOT a nihilistic idea. A nihilist would say "fuck you."

so your saying that the two of you are talking of the same thing from differant points of view...meaning you will never agree or be 'right'

I differ in opinions there. Nihilism also encompasses living your life, however, living your life day to day and not getting locked up in the past. You see it is freeing to know that regardless of how you die everyone dies one day. The Germans were so empowered by nihilism they started a few wars. They suddenly didn't have to be diplomatic about everything because one day they are dead anyway. That was a very bad interpretation of nihilism. Nihilism also encompasses not letting other people get to you and seizing the moment. Much better.

A proto-existentialist idea chalks everything up into an extension beyond death. Then again if you think about it, what happens if you die? Either you are dead and it is over or it is not. That would mean knew changes and existence await everyone. New challenges, new groups of consciousness, but what does any of that mean if everything already means nothing.

Being comfortable with yourself and others is therefore crucial. You can't just die and be dead, even though you are dead to everyone still alive. (Death is dealt with by the living in many ways).

Budha even said (paraphrasing) the only thing constant is change. You can choose to fight against it or simplify your life by going with the flow.