i dont quite get your concept... for your analogy to work, the vwbeetle would have to be continously stretching into a longer and longer limo...

universal expansion is not just one vector of a ray. common theory is that the universe is an expanding sphere or ellipse...

Exactly! So if the entire universe is expanding at the same rate, our planet will remain in its same position relative to the outside of the universe. It will never manage to close the distance, unless space is finite.

actually, it would stand to reason that our galaxy would be outpaced by expanding gasses and particles furthering the edge of the universe (differnent velocitys between galaxies and particles and other matter in space)... we'd still be moving, but we'd actually be LOSING ground in relation to the size of the universe (that is until the universe contracts in upon itself)...

You may be right, I'm a little shaky on my astrophysics...but anyway...

Wasn't there something in the header to this thread about a question of absolute good?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say no. Universal morals, perhaps...absolute good, no.

absolutes are assumptions... like Plato's Forms they exist, we are just unable to observe them...

i personally thing it is impossible to attain perfection, but that doesnt mean we shouldnt strive to anyway... the closer we get, the more we evolved to get there... and that IS the pupose of life, yes? to live and evolve?

that's like saying as humans we believe time is definite when in reality it is indefinite. we can't really prove unless we use calculus and etc.

sorry just babbling.

Striving to better oneself is indeed a noble goal. Too bad more people don't apply that to the accumulation of wisdom, rather than simply attempting to achieve the goals of society's false standards of beauty and success...

Actually what I was saying was that any representation we make of those forms is not exact. When you draw a circle on a piece of paper with a pen, it's not truly a circle. The width of the penstroke can be measured, hence it has width. A true circle has none, as its circumference is made up of individual points on a plane, which have no measurable size.

i know what you meant i was thinking the exact thing.

Ah, ok. In that case, I was simply being a big dummyhead and not understanding you.

*smacks you both so you start talking smart again*

enough compliments, you two had some great thoughts there... keep it up...

ouch!


anyways as i was saying before i was knocked into my senses. as humans we tend to want to define things so it would be easier for us to comprehend things we can't simply understand. time is just something that was manmade. there is no definite proof that right now it could be 6:20 my time. for someone else it may be 5:20, 4:20, 3:20, etc. plus if you notice when you are work or a friend's house no one clock or watch are the same. i have noticed that my watch is 3 minutes behind from my dad's tv. i'm sure you get the point. it probably is the same way when people think of perfection or imperfection. this is also proven in science with organisms, plants, insects, etc. we define things and then when something is so completely different we create another group. well i hope this makes sense. sometimes i think i babble to much.

I have to disagree. I think that there is such thing as true perfection. Im living proof!!

(hehe jk)

i too believe in true perfection, for what proof is there that true perfection doesn't exist? i don't think time is manmade either, for all that is manmade is the way of representing time for us, but nonetheless, time exists.......for, think about before all this started, well you can undoubtedly point to one second before hand.......

dammit woman!

Now you've gone and combined to "no-no" words...truth and perfection. Double whammy. So does that mean there is false perfection? Are we speaking of relative truth, or an absolute?

As far as time goes, we've taken the concept and put it into a completely artificial framework...daylight savings time, time zones...combine those with artificial lighting, and we've really shut ourselves up into a remote environment, out of touch with the actual concept of time itself.

oh there is plenty of false perfection out there... like the christian god for one...

I think the root of the problem there lies in the fact that, according to most Judeo-Christian beliefs, God is omniscient and omnipotent. Were He simply one or the other, many of the problems and contradictions within the written scriptures could be avoided. The problem comes when He is depicted as both all-knowing and all-powerful...

very true... i prefer our cult (perhaps because i am almost a god there anyway)... i wonder why?