i was watching a national geographic special( i think) talking about these very real children. they discussed those who were raised by wolves/dogs and then one girl that was left in seclusion for thirteen years, in sort of a cruel way it discussed how crucial these kids were in understanding the development of the human brain and how necessary physical interaction is for babies to develop such necessary traits as speech, confidence and other aspects that make us human.

the oldest they found was a thirteen year old girl, her parents kept her in a cage, she was in diapers her entire life and had no clue about anything outside of the tiny room she was kept in. When they rescued her, they were pretty impressed at how quickly she learned to interact with people and her ability to learn vocab, but she could never understand the concept of speech and how to properly use it...she's living in an adult care facility.

a three year old Russian boy they found to be raised by dogs, seems to have been able to successfully make a recovery, while he still has a tendency to revert to dog like behavior, he's now advancing as normal children would.

they then did experiments with baby monkeys, first offering them a soft monkey form or a monkey form with a bottle, but no comforting aspects, the babies chose the comfort over the food every time, here's where the cruel science part is, they raised these monkeys in isolation and discovered that when they were put in a social situation they were confused, frightened and generally unable to function...sort of like they saw demonstrated by the feral children.

what was really startling, as they discussed the traits of these children, i was struck by how like autistic behavior their traits were...

proof that social creatures need social interaction to thrive, and when deprived of that necessary ingredient grow into nothing else but simple beasts that can't develop advanced thought, no matter how clever they demonstrate they are for learning basic knowledge.

We are social. Language is something unique to humanity and I think it's something that has to be learned when the brain is still developing in order for it to fully be able to use it because it's such a complex thing. I really suck at this explaining my thoughts but eh. Yea - we're social creatures, we thrive off of one another and I image it really is difficult to not have that. But to then find yourself thrust in a very communal society and be expected to understand and adapt is a lot to ask.

Ah nevermind - I know what you're saying though.

Actually, the reason language is so important at a young age is because if you don't exercise that part of the brain, it will begin to detiorate after so many years. As was the case with "Genie" (that girl in the room). That was physically why she couldn't say more than 20 or so words. [On a side note: just how fucked is our court system, the charges on Genie's mother were dropped, and after a number of years, Genie's mother successfuly sued for custody of her daughter . . . only to stick her in a mental-hospital].

But yeah, the brain is highly advanced organ, that if neglected, will deterioate certain portions of itself . . .

thank goodness for the internet and libraries than.

it was amazing, for the last month my daughter's been pestering me about wanting to live wild...i recorded it for her to watch, it hasn't changed her mind, just gave me a "I told you wolves would raise children"

she's trying to decide on what jungle she's going to live in when she's eighteen, i told her at that age she can do anything she wants, i don't want to let her know that our wolf reintroduction plan is going quite well here.

it's amazing what children can come up with when they're brains are active, but slightly off.

I think I saw the same episode you did. There was one boy in Africa that for a brief time was raised by monkeys. *Note that when I say brief, I'm comparing it to an entire lifetime*.

He was 'smart' but not at the level he was expected to be if he was raised by an ordinary human family.

Isn't it something like one gene separates human beings from monkeys? And if I remember correctly, its that of retaining long term memory...something to that effect.

One gene from monkeys? I thought it was orangutans. And their memory . . . ? Never heard that, I'll have to look into it.

I will say this about our lil' furry relatives, there's a certain species of orangutan that has the uncanny ability to "read thoughts"--not in some sort of supernatural/esp way, but the way people can read one another through facial expressions, behavors, knowledge, etc. It's a curious aspect of the mind that isn't even developed fully in humans until one is about eight years old. Ergo, our furry, poo flingin' cousins are technically more advanced (in terms of sentience) than our children.

i sure hope it's not memory that designates us from the rest of the primates, i don't have much of one.

i thought chimpanzees were our closest relative in the world of apes?

I cant remember to be honest I just know its something thats so simple, and you wouldnt have really thought of it.

Its the hair

So it sounds like those monkeys would actually be great manipulators if they had the ability to think farther beyond than what they do

Well, sentience is a really complicated thing . . . and it differs from the species that have it. Elephants have the greatest memory out of any species on the planet and sometimes suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome. Dolphins have a complex language and sexual desire (they mate for fun). What's really freaky and interesting is the Portia spider, which is the only insect/arachnid to show a level of intelligence (possibly sentience?) . . . it's a spider that feeds primarily on other spiders, but does so by climbing on the web of its prey, whereby it mimics a familiar tune. Spider webs work like this: their design is built on a frequency of vibrations the maker/spider recognizes . . . so when wind moves the web, the spider knows it's wind, and when an insect struggles on the web the vibration it causes tells the spider it's food. So, there's the portia, on some other spider's web, playing the notes for wind . . . until it's ready to strike, then it plays the notes of a struggling insect. When the other spider comes to investigate, the portia attacks. Now, it's a relatively small spider, so it is venomous. But how is it the portia knows to play these notes? Every spider's web is designed according to it's class. But what's more interesting is what the portia does when the other spider doesn't fall for it's trick. The portia will sit there, look about (literally, it looks around) and then it will climb up a tree, out onto a branch, then dangle down and swing in for the attack, biting the other spider on its back. Now how many species out there have the ability to plan out strategic attacks like this . . . furthermore, how many insects? Not very many . . . so the portia spider, sentient?

What I wonder is, is whether or not feral children are sentient . . . I'm talking about true feral children, those that live in the wild, away from man. If portions of their brain deteriorate, does it cause a negative affect on their a pirori logic?