i am not religious, but the existence of God is something i am highly interested in....first off, there is logical problem for God's existence: 1) God is omniscient (all knowing), 2) God is omnipotent (all powerful), Evil exists....

there are criticisms that try to justify the existence of evil yet they contradict God's omniscience and omnipotence: such as claiming evil is an opposite of good, which contradicts God's omnipotence as it claims God could not create good without its opposite of evil....or what about evil as means to a good, this also contradicts God's omnipotence.....then there is of course the ever popular theory that evil is due to human free-will, but this in itself is a pardox of omnipotence as it claims that God created something which He has no controll over.

so as it seems, it is impossible that God exists; however, there is a theory that I have been increasingly interested in...that to justify the existence of evil we need to look aesthetically, that the existence of evil promotes a higher order of harmony since it is beautiful in its own way.

the only question I ask is: does this idea also contradict God's omnipotence? or can it be justified that if evil promotes a higher order of harmony through beauty that it is not really evil, not really evil in God's sense despite it being evil in our sense?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Look at your screenname! Ahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Yeah thats....interesting.

I don't know?

If there was one thing in the beginning that was there and generally good, then it could follow that there were two beings, one good and one evil.

I don't think that free will discounts anything. Certainly, he has no control over us. But he could have meant it that way.

I'm not sure what I believe in...but these arguements you have need some work.

Humans create the evil .. With out evil we would not have freewill..

tada..

Humans create the evil .. With out evil we would not have freewill..

ok....well, humans create evil....does this not then imply that God cannot and could not create evil?
also, you imply that God could not create freewill without evil being created by humans

Humans create evil....God created humans...

SHAZAM!!!

Evil was necessary for good to be co-created.God did create them both but it was humanity that chose to bring them both into this world.God is good and love just like it is everything else inculding evil.

One way to look at it.

umm.. if there was no evil.. we would not be humans because we would not have freewill...

can you explain how I got shazamed because i still think my argument stands?

If a God exists, far from omnipotent. Thus not worthy of worship. Thus not worthy of existance.

God is a paradox created by human mind to explain greater paradoxes and mysteries. A concept that is, finally, fading...

I believe what Zecharia Sitchen has discovered about our origins and who or what our perception of what god is. Check out the movies at his site.

Ive read all his books and his discoveries are incredible.

This guy is a professor, and has translated ancient Sumerian texts and travelled for years putting peices of a puzzle together. It will blow your mind if you give his discoveries a chance. Check it out.

if God is good....and good fully opposes evil, then God cannot create evil....as for evil co-existing, or humans creating evil, that implies that God could not have done anything than create evil...its kind of like asking the question can God create a rock so big he cannot pick it up?

If a God exists, far from omnipotent. Thus not worthy of worship. Thus not worthy of existance.

God is a paradox created by human mind to explain greater paradoxes and mysteries. A concept that is, finally, fading...


__________________
i agree.....but i still think God can be proven to exist....all though if he does exist, then i'm screwed cuase i know i'm headed for hell

why do people insist on believing in a biblical-esque sort of god? god could just as easily be some sort of Divine Number, the piece of the great science soup that caused it all to make sense beyond what we could ever understand. or -gasp! could it be?- maybe there just isn't a big daddy who's gonna come and save us from ourselves.

for all we know, That Wot Started This Whole Business is just a chemical. maybe someday someone will figure out how vastly, unthinkably important some particular mishmash of electrons and protons and neutrons, et cetera, is, and maybe there will truly be a cosmic epiphany.

and maybe not.

ever.

when asked to present evidence that there is a god, a believer would point to their breast and say something stupid like "I FEEL god" (consistently forgetting to add that they are completely fucking stark raving loony and also have a tendency to talk to refridgerators and other inanimate objects).

when asked to present evidence that there is no god, the nonbeliever need only point in any direction and state "there is no evidence of anything... that's the point."

btw, i'm starting a cult. it's called "the Church/Cult/Cynigogue of No Answers (read our FAQ)". the only thing remotely dogmatic being the totally undeniable concept that there is no way on earth that anybody will ever really know for sure the answers to any of this kind of stuff (at least not in this particular lifestream). because, let's face it: nobody really knows jack shit, but everyone seems to think they do anyway.

...but what do i know?*








*kids! here is the answer to today's quiz!:
"i know absolutely nothing for certain."

oh, and explain to me what evil has to do with freewill? is it not possible that my Self could freely choose to either draw a carrot, or pick up a leaf, and not cause any evil whatsoever? or is my concept on evil blurry? i don't see how making a choice necessitates that one of the choices must be evil. and don't give me any biblical parables/parodies. a story is just a story: something to tell the kids late at night so they'll shut the fuck up and go back to sleep.

If there was no evil...we may not be humans, but we wouldn't care.

The shazam was just in response to your tada

there is no God in the traditional sense; there is a higher power, or fate... I don't know. All I know is there is something more then human, and as a human we cannot even attempt to comprehend this as it is way beyond our reasoning... either this, or there is nothing at all

me

Good and Evil
Black and White

You can't have one without the other. Almost like Newton's Law...for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

why do people insist on believing in a biblical-esque sort of god? god could just as easily be some sort of Divine Number, the piece of the great science soup that caused it all to make sense beyond what we could ever understand. or -gasp! could it be?- maybe there just isn't a big daddy who's gonna come and save us from ourselves.

i entirely believe in the existence of a necessary being (i.e. that which created us, whether or not it had the actual thought process of doing so...such as the big bang).....however, we can understand that which created us, and although i do not believe in God or any other biblical shit, i do believe that whitout the just criticisms God can be proved as to exist

despites all the paradoxes: free-will, evil as an opposite of good, etc.....it seems that there is one thing that might justly prove the existence of God with the existence of evil....and that is the aesthetic principle of it

in one aspect, it can be consider that a Good 1 (happiness) opposes an Evil 1 (suffering) only to promote a Good 2 (sympathy) and so the list continues until the ultimate Evil X is considered, and justly so, whereby a Godd X+1 is promoted...

in the other aspect, the beauty of evil in itself supports the aesthetic principle that evil and good both promote

people fall back on a western view of metaphysics because most people here are from western metaphysical backgrounds...

duh..

Good point Aet. Niccolo Machiavelli once said,

"Even if God does not exist, it is necessary for man to create Him"

Smart guy.