Yep, the onus is more and more on us when it comes to health. Maybe it's not a bad thing, but a little bedside manner wouldn't go astray.

It's immoral to discover medical treatments?

No, it's immoral to take so much money for that job. Here I could list some other immoral things that lead to insane price of medicine, but all those things were mentioned before.

Why is that immoral, exactly?

Leave alone doctors. I hate people who get rich just to "be rich". I see a great disproportion between those people and the poor. When I see on TV that one famous football player gets (here insert arbitrarily high value) for played game and I swith the cannel and I see a reportage about starving children in South Africa, my blood starts to boil in my veins.

Maybe "immoral" isn't very precise description for that, but you must agree that it is wrong.

Why do a famous sportsman, a famous lawyer, a famous doctor, a famous politician and so on earn so much? Because they are famous? Because they do their job well? No.
The answer is: becaouse they are rich. All of them have started "from zero", but they've achieved enough. But they want more and more money. That's insane.

Do you remember an event that Metallica sued authors of Napster, because they created an opportunity to distribute illegal versions of Metallica's artwork?
That really pissed me off.
For God's sake, everyone knows Metallica. This band is very popular, but those assholes would fight for every one dollar extra. They have earned enough. Or maybe too much - they've lost their minds.

I hope that those examples explained you, Dark Messiah, what is my point of view. I know, in some places I haven't put things as clear as I wanted because I still learn English.

where is the humility?

No, I mustn't. Someone being rich doesn't cause someone else to starve. The other person not having food causes the other person to starve. I don't blame football players for that, I blame the extremists, dictators, and thugs that create these conditions in third world countries where it's impossible to effectively feed everyone.

That's not an answer. That's the exact same statement as the question, only phrased slightly differently so it's not a question. That's like me saying, "Why are people blue? The answer is because they're blue". That aside, there's nothing insane about wanting money. No matter what you do, some people will always have more money than others, so setting a specific limit as to what's a reasonable amount of money for a rich person to have, and what's unreasonable, will always be arbitrary, and therefore pointless.

I don't support Metallica in their crusade against file-sharing, but there's also a certain amount of morals behind it. That aside, the issue is fundamentally different from that of distributing drugs. With file-sharing songs can be spread much easier and cheaper than used to be possible. It was only because of the difficulty in getting an artist's music spread that record labels sprang up in the first place. File-sharing doesn't threaten artists, it threatens the record labels by making them obsolete. The situation with medicine is totally different. Some costs are no doubt largely inflated, probably because of government healthcare, but even at a significantly reduced price, most life-saving operations would be ridiculously expensive. Maybe the answer is; we simply shouldn't spend millions of dollars saving an old person's life. As you said, suffering is rampant in the World. So is ignorance and hate. Five million dollars could do a lot more if used correctly and for the general good of humanity than simply saving an eighty year old's life.

No problem. I know what a pain in the ass it is to learn a new language.

Our motivations have changed dramatically with our consumer society. We want much more then we need. More worth and power is given to the wealthy. Morality has become a weakness or a prejudice. Enough money will fix anything.

How do you imagine that?

Only rich people will always find an opportunity to get more and more money - there's no help for the poor.

Printing more money? You should know it makes no sense.

I don't think that's how she intended it.

It was a jadedly sarcastic remark.

Whatever it was, it won't help.

huh, well that will. I don't believe 'nothing' helps much either, unless of course you're faced with a rather fierce Bengal tiger in the deepest recesses of Peru - the aforementioned having escaped from the Lima Safari Park. 'Nothing', so *they say, is the best course of action in this circumstance.


*see footnote below.

Life's not fair deal with it..

If I was born without a head you wouldn't hear me complaining.

Here's an interesting thing. In western medicine (that would be us) we typically pay a doctor to treat us when we are sick. In traditional Chinese medicine, you do not pay your doctor when you get sick. The idea is that if you are ill, it means your physician is not doing a proper job, and thus does not deserve payment. Our current medicine tends to alleviate symptoms, but does nothing about curing the illness. There is no money in cures.

It is our responsibility to look after our own health. Too many people take it for granted that there is someone looking after them. You want to know why so many doctors are tired and overworked? Jaded and uncaring? It's because there are so many stupid people coming to them whining about pathetic little things. If you have a cold, you need rest and fluids, not a freakin doctor. Diarrhea? It will likely pass. If it continues for a very long time, THEN you need a doctor. If you broke a bone, have a large gash in your flesh, severe and blinding pain in your abdomen go see a doctor. If you have a headache and it isn't persistent, recurring or preventing you from functioning you probably just need a glass of water.
And while we're on it, people are becoming such whiny simps. Nowadays no one gets a simple headache, it's all migraines. And they can't do their job because of it. People seem to think the most minor discomfort is some major medical problem that they require attention for, not just from doctors but everyone they know. And when they go to the doctor, or the hospital (really, pre-SARS was it really necessary to visit the emergency ward to treat your flu symptoms?) they expect that they will be treated with some importance.
Part of the blame for this comes from the pharmacuetical companies, who have a medication for just about every physical inconvenience and desperately want you to take it at every opportunity. Got a headache? You need Tylenol extra strength. Not regular, but the strongest permitted without a prescription. The most common cause of headaches is dehydration. Some people may need certain medications, such as those with mental chemical imbalances, but find the drugs have negative effects that inhibit their daily functioning. Rather than trying something else, they are usually prescribed a second medication to counter the former's negative side effects. Often this produces more side effects requiring yet another drug (I know someone who went through this). Doctors prescribe drugs too readily, and hey if something is supposed to ease their ridiculous workload why wouldn't they? I can't understand how someone can complain that their doctor doesn't care enough because they are tired from working 12 days straight. Most people would be up in arms about that if it were them. I routinely hear co workers complain if they put in more than 5 days straight, and their workload is much smaller, the hours shorter and they don't have to take any of it home.

I'm not championing doctors here, there are some real assholes out there, but this is a different view. Many start out wanting to help people in need, and find they have to hack through idiots to get to them.

The real issue here seems not to be one of the medical community's morality, but a simple class struggle. Sometimes treatment just costs a lot of money because of all the factors involved. Not everyone can get it. Nor should they. Quite frankly we are disturbing natural order by not allowing genetic weakness to be culled. I don't hear anyone crying for wild animals that suffer from rare diseases but can't aford treatment. Oh, but they're not human. Only human life is sacred. George Carlin had some rather poignant thoughts on this subject that are far more eloquent than my words could be. The gist is, we made up the idea of the sanctity of life, so we get to choose what life is sacred. We choose human life due to self interest.

wow, headaches caused by deyhydration....so that explains why i like never get a headache, cuz i;m always drinking fluids......and yeah, i agree, people are so whiny anymore about shit......if i;m sick, i'm like damnit! i have a sore throat and hurts to smoke a bowl, but fuck it.....

Mothers are more resilient, they have to be. Women are also much more aware of physical ailments and take a more hands-on approach to their families and their own health.

The sanctity of life is an entirely other thread.

hmmm......so itz the womans job to ensure her families health; therefore, when my kids get sick and i can continue watching television......rock on!

It's not a womens job; I just think we are generally more in-tune with our bodies, we have to be really.There are big media campaigns here to encourage men to be more aware and deal with their health issues. Especially the good ol' prostate.