Do you Lie?

What do you consider a lie?

In my opinion, any untruth is a lie.

If you tell someone one thing and say something different behind their back, that is a lie.

If you tell them something that isn't true, that is a lie.

If you hide the truth from them, that is a lie.


What do you guys think, what is your opinion of a lie?

Do I lie? Sometimes... Like when I am late for work, when I overslept, I tell em the trains were delayed. Makes it easier on all...

Myself, I see lies in two forms: Untruth and betrayal of truth. The first is minor, often used to soften up reality a bit, and often to someones (not neccisarily oneselfs) benefit.

The second, is bad. You bend reality in such a manner, that others get a wrong view of you. Lies about relations, and the such, falls thereunder. And that is something I will not do.

Hiding a truth... It depends again. Needs a dying grandmother to know her daughter just lost her grandchild during labor, for instance? Is it not more compassionate to keep that from her, in her last moments? But I agree, it can be considered a lie. And when I consider it a betrayal to truth, I will not hide it...


But it is not easy, sometimes, to not hide truth. Especially when a friend tells you things in confidence, about another friend. Then you must decide what takes precedence: The confidenciality or upholding truth...

...denying to relay the Truth. ("pleading the 5th")
...relaying fictive information.
...masking information and leaving out parts of it in order to construct a Lie close to the Truth.
..."sparing people from the Truth" - white lies are lies also; and just as cowardly.
...projecting incorrect signals through body language.


Worth noticing in this context:
A person who believes s/he is telling the Truth can never be called a liar, as that person is only relaying the Truth s/he knows. Relaying erroneous information about knowledge of the Truth is, however, also a Lie.

I do not speak lies. Ever. I abhor lies and liars alike. In my opinion, if you are bold enough to ask my opinion you should be brave enough to hear the Truth as well.
I do however keep my mouth shut about information given to me in confidence, but when asked I also inform that I have been sworn to secrecy. In such cases I am willing to withhold information in order to Honor my Word and the wishes of the person confiding in me.

I think i'm with Aet on this one. I'll lie if i'm late for work but I'll also lie if someone is prying into my personal business just to get them to shut up.

Example:

If somebody ask's me a question that I don't want to answer then I say - i'm not answering that. Then they usually want to know more (sorry ladies but it is usually women who do this). This carries on

tell me?
No
Tell me?
no
Tell me!!
No!
Tell me ??!!!??
Lie (make something up but it's the same isn't it?)

If it is something important then no I do not lie. I don't make up things about myself (my dick doesn't really touch the floor btw - lol) and I view such people who do as unfortunate and sad.

I really like Aet's definitions. Betraying the Truth is a damn good descriptive for lies which will only end up in hurting someone else. Those are the worst kind of lies, and should never be told.

There are also 'white lies' which I actually feel are socially neccessary. Times when telling someone the truth would cause unneeded pain. Aet's example above is a very extreme version of that. It can even be as simple as: "Do you like this dress on me?" Saying yes, if they're happy with the way that it looks, even if you don't like it spares them getting their feelings hurt, and their self esteem battered, by what is after all nothing more than your opinion.

I do not believe that white lies are at all a good thing:

"Do you like my hair?"

"Oh yeah I think it looks great!" (not really - but I don't want to hurt her feelings)

"Great, I'll get it cut this way next time then."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Do you like my dress?"

"Yes, you look beautiful." (god, she looks fat)

"Cool, it was kind of pricey, but there was one real close to it that I wanted too, I guess I'll go get that as well"

____________________________________________________

No lie is white. All lies can hurt... don't you think?

I dont consider the refusal of information a lie, just the presentation of false information.
I`ve gave my opinion to someone about their personal lives based on casual optimism before. It was nothing I could be certain about but its certainly going to be more helpful to them than "I dunno".
If people are going to get hurt saying I dont like their hairstyle then they shouldnt ask me.They`ll either get "no" or "...." as a answer if I dont like it.

I disagree... if you think in your mind that the person really look like a clown in the dress, I believe you should let that person know of your opinion. After all that is what was asked of you. Of course, I do not mean you should tell the person "Hell no, you look like shit!", but go about it saying something like "Well, actually, I'm not too sure I like it... there's something odd about it" - that way you turn the focus on how the dress looks on her, not the way she looks in the dress. See the difference? And it would not be a lie either, because the dress does look odd... on her.
Besides, if she looks like a total dork in a dress, I think it would be mean to that person to say it looks nice and send her out amongst other people - her self esteem will only be even more so battered by having less familiar faces telling her about that dress.

Whenever someone ask me about my opinion I give them my honest opinion, even if wrapped up nicely.

Because, after all, it is not what you say, but how you say it.


Edit: And it is most likely because of these opinions about Truth I am often asked about my opinion in matters - people know they will get an honest answer... seemingly a rare commodity these days... So no, I do not consider myself socially unacceptable because of it either :p

What about cheating on a spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend, any one you make a commitment to...?

Would you not tell them because it would be kinder?

AND, is the -not- telling a lie?

<- (very interested in this answer)

First things 1st - HAve you ever been shopping with a woman? If you say no you don't like the dress you get more hassle than if you say yes so I don't think it's fair to apply this one as a lie. You can't lie to someone when they only want to hear one answer.

Water - Firstly you're a low life if you cheat. You just don't have the balls to own up or u like fucking with people.

You may not be telling a lie unless you are actually asked outright if you are cheating and u say no.

You are living a lie though.

Would it be kinder - I think that doesn't apply. Kinder? it's not kind to cheat in the first place. You'd be better ending your current relationship if you are cheating.

I didn't ask about the morality of cheating... obviously if you cheat you are lying to yourself that the relationship is a good one... I was asking about what people think the issue of hiding it is.

Is it a kinder lie to your spouse to not tell, or is it just a regular lie not to tell?

*points up to the previously stated "it's kinder not to tell" kind of thing*

And geez Tor, don't get so grumpy, we're just talking here.

:p

althought that is withholding the truth which i don't really consider technically lying, it is cheating. i'd not tell them if i knew they had no way of knowing, i regret it heaps and heaps and heaps and telling would not solve anything at all. actually telling stuff like this doesn't normally help anything. oh except for the whole trust thing.

*shrugs*

but then again, i've never and don't plan on being in that position.

on the other hand, if i were cheated on would i want to know?

if it was a one off and he knew inside him that he would never ever do it again, perhaps in fear of losing me etc. and i would never know - it was with some random stranger in another country perhaps. i might be inclined to choose ignorance.

and with the dress thing

i've never had anyone seriously ask me if they look fat etc in something. it's more a what do you think? or should i buy it?

and that's much easier i suppose because it's not about their weight, it's not about them. you don't offend them.

a good way around it is to focus on the good. like saying, nah i liked the blue one better.

i'm a girl and i've never asked the "does this make my ass look big?" questions when shopping. actually i hardly ever seek advice. if i like it, i buy it - that is if i can afford it.

Its kinder to say the truth when cheating.If that happens then I feel theres something wrong within the relationship.Knowing that and fixing that problem or ending the relationship is better than living with someone you probably shouldnt at that point in time.

Let me break it down, into a little better example of what I mean by a white lie:

Both of my kids dress in the 'popular style' of the high schools in our area. In my daughter's case, this means she's wearing the Bell Bottoms that I hated back while I was in school. In my son's case, it means wearing jeans a size too big, held up over a pair of boxers by nothing more than his butt cheeks. In both cases, I think they look like hell. For the sake of 'honesty', should I really tell them that, though?

I would, then they`d call me "unkewl".Then I`d laugh and push them out the door.No harm done.

*smiles brightly at Velvet*

You know me pretty well, and you know I never mean to take offense, and that this is just a debate so I will say this and hopefully it'll make you smile:

HELL YES YOU SHOULD.

Why wouldn't you? It's your opinion... *shrugs and smiles again* Children are no less entitled to honesty than adults and if I had to choose who I would lie to first, I would choose the adult. No, I don't tell my kids everything about everything, but only because they aren't mature enough to understand what "Plant Shutdown" means. I wouldn't tell them they CAN'T wear those clothes, but I would say - "I really don't like that look, it brings back memories, or I think it's sloppy looking, or just unattractive basically, but wear what you want, I won't force you to my way of thinking. Remember, it's just one person's opinion"

Don't you think that everyone wins that way? You don't lie, they get the truth and you can teach them at an early age to take constructive criticism well.

At least that's the way I see it.

*hands Velvet the popcorn and settles in the chair to wait for the reply*

Cheating is almost destined to destroy any relationship. But lying about it will guarantee it.

It might be kinder - Hell a part of me would rather not be told information like that, if I was in what I'd thought was a committed and stable relationship - but when the lie comes out, (and they usually do) that would make it so much worse.

No offense intended, Water - and none taken

Okay - keep in mind that mine are older than yours, if I remember correctly. Mine are at the age where they're already convinced they know everything.

Now - my daughter has a very slight little belly, which she's apparently magnified into this huge, enormous beer gut. At barely 16, I really don't want her dieting or attempting to starve herself to lose it (Kendra is 5'2" and weighs maybe 120lbs. - A long way from overweight) But she attributes any bad feelings about herself to being fat. My son has fairly normal teenage acne, which makes him self conscious as well...

I figure if I tell my kids that I don't like any of the clothes they wear, one of two things will happen. Either I suddenly become "Mother - She just doesn't understand me, the old fart" or my opinion of their clothing does matter, and makes them start doubting themselves. In either case, I don't want that to happen.

If they value my opinion on little things, then they'll listen to me on the bigger ones.. Drinking, drugs, unprotected sex... and if they're confident in themselves, then they'll be confident enough to say No...

If that means that I look at my son's jeans with the crotch somewhere around his kneecaps and I have to smile and say "You look fine..." because he feels he does... then that's what I'll do.

I'd rather save constructive criticism for bigger things

*Grabs some popcorn, and kicks back*

Okay - there's my reply!