i went to a lecture this morning and the lecturer brought up some interesting points.

he is very interested in simulations - how media creates lifestyles that we aspire to. ones that we can never be, because they are unrealistic and idealised, but are ingrained in us anyhow.

before the victorian era, children were merely little adults and served as adults, treated as adults etc.

then came these people with much luxury and dressed their children like dolls. children were protected and kept innocent. seen and not heard and made to play. if they were to display adult behaviour - such as sexual or blatant views, they were punished. they were taught to play and conditioned to do so. they seeminly enjoyed it.

and so it continues...

there are a few problems with this in my head - i haven't thought it through completely - it's only been a few hours since the lecture. and an image that re-occurs in my head are ancient egyptian children playing. but at the same time i remember that they were treated like adults. little adults that played. i suppose then, the adults of ancient egypt were treated in the same way:adults that also played.


more on this when i go through my notes.

but what do you think?

perhaps you are taking the idea too far... people had very few rights until they either reached a certain age or where the heads of their household... now, due to diesease and poverty that may have came a little earlier to some, but essentially children were still children (they just helped the family by working shit jobs if noone could afford schooling)...

or perhaps not......i mean, of course children were children, but not so long ago, just a few hundred years, it was not abnormal for a twelve year old girl to get married and have children.....but as for today, sexual conduct is technically restricted to adults only, even outlawed in some cases

well the way i see it, i think life itself is not real. i guess once we're dead and go to wherever we are meant to go, we'd probably realise that our whole life was an illusion, which distorted the human spirit and made us think materislistically about our lives. i suppose no really understands what 'reality' means......not even the most learned teachers or professors. it's as profound and as vague as 'Is there is God?' or 'Why is there evil and pain?' and so on and so forth....

anyway that's just my take on it......seeya

life is real, although it may be an illusion, but illusions are real....it's like considering whether or not a mermaid is real? of course it's real, maybe nit physically, but mermaids do exists, for we have a comprehension of its existence.....i guess that means reality is comprehension....

my last post had nothing to do with the thread....

anyway, perhaps childhood should not be charactorized by age, perhaps it should be charactorized by innocence....in that sense, we are all still children, but perhaps the label "child" refers to younger people since they are seemingly more innocent (not just sexually, or physically, but also with wisdom)....in that case, if a twelve year old is emeensly intelligent, (and perhpas already physically grown, and perhaps no longer a virgin) does that remove the title of "child"?

Don Miguel Ruiz explains how as children the world hooks our attention, and by punishment and reward we are taught to be something we are not . . . Humans are domesticated in the same way we domesticate a dog.

so are you suggesting a nurture concept, compared to a nature one?......what is interesting is i just watched a show on TLC about testosterone....anyway, on the show they said something very interesting about childhood.....for years, we considered the play-styles of children were based on nurture aspects, but this is not entirely the case.....it has been discovered that girls that are "tom-boys" have higher amounts of testosterone than average girls.......

i dont think im the same person i was as a child....i have memories but i feel like i wasnt there

childhood too me is a time when people should be encouraged to discover who they are...too often what happens is that parents try to make the child what they want, where they failed have their children succeed...and it takes the child the years they should be discovering what they want to do with their life...trying to make sense of who they are...children should be encouraged in all they endeavor...as young adults a guidance on how to survive is needed so when they have to they have to mingle with "real life" they have a good foundation of themself...

I think that the "childhood" and "nurturing" issues during a specific time period are also relative to the life expectancy rate during that era. Perhaps in centuries where children at the age of 12 were treated as adults, there were several threats to the lives of the population (ex: the plague, war, medical illness) Most people didn't live to be in their 70's and 80's as they do now, so they were forced to grow up faster and suceed in life.

But how does one really suceed in live? Although many may think that to be successful means to make money, gain social acceptance, or maybe to feel that they have made their mark in history.

However, all those goals come but from civilization. Humans are after all animals, and all animals have the same goal. To truely succeed is to reproduce. To pass on ones genes. That is how nature works and why certain behaviors in animals are developed. It all leads to reproduction.

So, naturally, if you knew that your chances of living beyond age 30 were bad, you would start your life early, perhaps get married at 12, have kids at 14, and raise them to be proper adults before your death.

so, does that mean that in 10 years from now in south africa, where it is estimated that the average life will drop by 40 years, that south african children will and should be viewed as adults......and it is also estimated that in the rest of africa the average life expectancy will drop by 20 years, should their children too beviewed as adults?

(This is just my theory)

I think that over time, it will; however, it won't happen abruptly. Eventually it will occur, as soon as instinct overcomes the habit. Otherwise, all of the people of South Africa will die out. If they linger in adolescence/childhood and cannot start families and have children before their death, the population will decrease. Nature will most likely prevent that before it happens.

But also, South Africa isn't isolated from the rest of the world. People migrate in and out. Either advances in medicine can prevent certain illnesses from claiming the people, or if what is killing them is gentetic, with the new people migrating to the area, the gene pool can be altered.

i agree, but what if the thoughts of childhood today effects there means of survival dramatically.......like if it is outlawed overthere (which i am not aware if it is or not) that children cannot have careers, or families, etc.......

another idea, i am not sure if i already posted this or not, there is this new disease(?) where children are being effected by hormones at a much younger age, like i saw this show where this girl was five years old and already capable of having children, and this boy was seven years old and already full of fertilizing sperm.....what does this indicate to you? to me it is mother nature's way of controlling over population, for if these children grow up faster could they concurrently die faster, for the first case known to scientists of this rare disorder just happened several years ago......

Interesting..
How many people have this new disease? Is it very common?



Perhaps it is nature's way. After all, our society is becoming much more dangerous and difficult to survive in. With violence, air pollution, water contamination, global warming, the hole in the ozone layer, maybe our instincts are sensing something that we ourselves are not. Maybe our lives are soon to be altered and are life expectancy will drop. Maybe this new disease is preparing us for what is ahead.

Of it could just be a mistake in nature, not much different from other diseases.

possibly.....i am not sure what the actual disorder is called, or how common it is, but it is relatively new and it seems to have substantial damage, like scientist are trying to treat it with this hormone stopper thingy, but it has severe side effects......

i do not this it is a disease, it's more of a disorder......but what if because of the things today, like the increasing pollution, radioactive waves, etc, are the cause?

It could be. But if that were the case, should it be stopped?

I think it is just a disorder though. The world, for the most part, seems to be reproducing just fine. Populations are on the rise.

this disorder could be a natural thing. how would we know if it people didn't have it thousands of years ago - they might not have tested it is all. i wonder how they found out these children were fertile anyhow? i suppose the girl would have her period?

we have so many variables now these things are inevitable. [to me anyway. it makes sense that if there would be extremes on both ends and all ends of the scale]

indeed she did......as for it being a natural thing, this could be true but the one problem that lies with this is why until like the 70's i think, that this natural ordeal was never reported, i mean even since like the 50's things like this would have been noticed and reported.......

if you treat a child like a child then how can you expect it to be anything but a child.

Look at parents around you, how foolish they are in appearance when they talk to a child - something which reflects upon the child.

If you tell children things that you make up how can you expect them to develope. If they say something like

"Dad, why do all your old photo's have no colour?"

Don't say (however tempting)

"Cos back in those days the world had no colour... colour is actually a recent thing"

Buy saying things like these we set our children back a little.

If they ask, where babies come from - tell them.

Talk to them like adults because they will understand. Don't talk to them like they are slow or stupid, talk to them like you would an adult.

I know from experience that kids brought up this way have a better understanding of life than kids wrapped up in cotton wool.