Just a thought...

Since people who consider themselves to be Goths often seem to dress and act in a very specific way, and often be very intolerant of other people who don't quite get it right, doesn't that make us the ultimate conformists?

Just an impartial thought... Take it or leave it, the choice is yours...

Subcultures are about belonging to something *else* not about belonging to nothing at all -- not that many of the black brigade have a clue what goth culture is/comes from/means either... (sigh)

See, that is exactly what I'm talking about. There is this streak of elitism and a feeling that we are somehow a little bit too good for everyone else, including each other, among "Gothic" people which I find extremely distasteful...

It seems that we are programmed to tolerate only the people who think the way that we do, and act the part out well. It's an instinct which I believe has to be managed very carefully...

Maybe that's because you guys think everyone else is stupid a'cause they ain't as...Ah, as "deep" as goths are? I dunno...That's one of the reasons I like goths (I can't stand any other teenage subgroup...Goddamned raver hedonists...) They are so uppity and posh.

I don't know. What I do know is that I'm sitting here in Nike shorts and a yellow "Mr. Clean" shirt...

Too much attention is put on fashion...plus, there is always the fact that as far as internal workings go, Goths are as different from one to the next as everyone else is.

Perhap my elitism is because I'm not a teen, and I see gothic subculture as growing from the romantic tradition in poetry, the gothic novel and the peak of punk in the 70's -- versus those who see it as wearing a black shirt and some mascara.

I'm not elitist, just an old bitch who was there when goth was born.

LOL! That's cool... I'm an old man of the seventies as well, so I can totally sympathise... Do you like the old Victorian authors like Sheridan Le Fanu and M.R. James?

I love that stuff...

I am so into Victoriana! All things Gothic -- Stoker (of course) but mostly the poets; Keats, Pope, Coleridge etc. I see the Gothic is mainly a poetic tradition (e.g. a recent book by Anne Williams that I love 'Art of Drakness: a Poetic of Gothic')

Sadly I know very little about dark rock, gothic music etc... I am more of a 'throw-back' Goth.

That's well cool Yeats as well, he wrote some great stuff... Poe too... Keats I love also, and although it's maybe before the Gothic time, William Blake is one of my foavourites...

Yes, Poe...he must be talked about...mainly because he's the only one of those I'm actually familiar with at any great length...

I think what he basically offered people in his stories was his own paranoia...

Agreed...I mean, this guy did not exactly have the greatest life...and it definately shows in his writing. On top of that, he was an alcoholic and had many other problems...

Strangely enough, it seems most of the great writers are a little bit crazy...

... ot at least it helps.

Actually, I'm not sure that's true -- Bram stoker was a normal family man...

Apprantley Stoker was something of what we would call a "one hit wonder" in modern popular culture. The rest of his stuff has been panned by critics...

Poe on the other hand was a prolific writer of great literature, and was an absolute wingnut...

Of course, what I'm saying is a generalisation. I'm sure there are plenty of great artists who were quite normal...

I'm myself and no one else...I like what I like..and dress as I will. By stating what you said you"re making a huge generalization pardon my typing my keyboard just shitted itself

I'm making a generalisation, yes, but I am generalising in order to show how ludicrous I consider generalising to be...

One of those satire sort of things.