I was reading this article a while back, about how term Gothc was born into a subculture, apparently Siouxsie and the Banshees are where it started.
And it got me thinking Siouxsie, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, The Damned, Ozzie...
How do they compare to Modern goth music, and how does modern goth music compare to them.
What are the Modern Goth Music Bands Anyway?
Marilyn Manson? Jack Off Jill? Inkubus Sukkubus? Slip Knot?
Personally I don't think that Marilyn Manson comes near to being music at all, and slip knot comes close to music except it's repetive.

What do you think how has the Music evolved? And the style with it?

Btw This is where I got this is the site
http://www.gothics.org/subculture/

I was reading somewhere that the first band that started was Bauhaus and that their model was the Damned, so I think that it all started from punk. But isn`t it true that most of gothic bens from th 80`s didn`t want to call themselves gothic. In fact Andrew Eldritch once said that there are 3 heavy metal bands in the world: Crass, Motorhead and the Sisters of Mercy.

That's true, the first bands didn't actually refer to themselves as gothic.
But the Damned according to that Article did, and didn't come start out until after Bauhaus.
Although Bauhaus is refered to in the Article as the Father, and Siouxsie the Mother of Goth.

Yes it is said she started it, but then it's also said the press labelled the band as such, so it will forever remain a mystery.


And no I do not consider most of those bands as "gothic".
Old school "goth" music still sells, is still being listened to and is still being played in clubs. The amazing thing is, one can hear where certain bands get their inspiration from. And what is even more amusing is the fact that majority of these bands would never admit that they in fact listen to Sisters of Mercy and that they may have been inspired by them. There is a definite influence with bands such as Diary of Dreams and Dreadful Shadows, and the Sisters influence is rather evident.

Ps. Ozzie is Metal not "Goth".

He does some amazing cover versions, one has to give credit where credit is due.

Yup - Goth did arise from punk and Andrew Eldritch did piss off a load of his goth fans by stating that "If there's any goths here tonight - they can piss off" at one of his shows. The fact that Pat Morrison (Mrs Dave Vanian) was playing in the band at the time did kinda confuse matters.

As Lillith said - a lot of the 'old school' goth - Bauhaus, FotN, SoM (sorry AE), etc is still listened to and played at goth clubs the new stuff kinda gets a bit blurry. People stating Marilyn Manson and NIN as goth. Trent Reznor does take some of the goth aesthetic but he went about to create a harder/darker side of dance/pop music and has done a bloody good job although he's mainly classed as industrial. MM again has taken some of the fetish/goth style and with his collaberation/assisstance from Trent Reznor became quite good although he has disappeared up his own ass pretty much since Mechanical Animals.

The tricky thing in stating what is/isn't goth is that most 'Goths' have quite an ecclectic taste, so it's not uncommon to hear bands like Duran Duran and Japan being played in clubs - who in no way shape or form can be classed as goth.

And yes none of us 80's "Goths" liked to be called that or anything in fact ,we were who we were and merely wandered around loving our dark sides.Music was Souzie..The Cure...The Ramones..skinny puppy even a few more.. but since when is SlipKnot Gothic in any way shape or form LOL????

Um, Slipknot? Definately not. And Ozzy was definately metal.

But yeah, I liked Idle's post...and I'll just sort of echo that...

Anyway, Goth did spring from Punk...and that leads to needing a bit of an understanding about the punk movement, what it entailed, and how things changed to discuss the entire thing. My knowledge is somewhat spotty, unfortunately...

I only stated Goth because alot of People I know who are goth, listen to Ozzie, but not neccesarily Black Sabbath.
Slip Knot Got added in because of their look mostly, but also because alot of the Baby Bats I have met recite how great they are.

Hehe...I actually don't mind Slipknot too much...they're just not "gothic" music. Though I've left my angst behind and turned to more melodic type things...

That's why I tend to listen more to Sisters and Inkubus Sukkubus. There Melodies are quite good, besides I can relate mostly to the Music.

Don't you think Slip Knot is Repitive though?

I concur with your points.....

In 1989 while I was living in San Francisco I met Rozz Williams the lead singer of the original Christian Death.... back than the tossed around term was DeathRocker and I remember being at my Wife and I's flat with about ten other people besides him and us.... someone asked him if he was a DeathRocker and to this day I remember what he replied to them....
"No... I am a sweet transvestite from transylvania ah huh hah!"

I do not recall even hearing the term Goth until many years later in about '95 or so....

In the 80's noone was too worried about labels.... we were just all freaks who were not punks... lol....

Bleh.... Slipknot.... bleh....

I think that Marilyn Manson and NIN can hardly be gothic they are more hard rock. Saying that they are gothic is just like saying that Nightwish are gothic just because of Taria`s voice. Well, that doesn`t makes them a gothic bend.

i could never understand the difference between industrial and goth music...anyone care to explain?

Uhm, I cant really tell where 'goth' started from, but I really dont like it when Bauhaus and Joy are described as goth.
dark wave is more their style, than goth.
esp when what people call goth nowadays is something like death in june and cacteau twins.

and if something did start from punk, then it's necropunk or postpunk, alien sex fiend, skeleton family etc

-imho-

Goth, metal, industrial, rock??? who cares labels don't stick with me... F. Nietzche had the right idea when he talked about labelling-when you give someone a title its like a boundry it puts limitations on what they can and cannot be and hinders there personal development...
So who really cares whether your gothic or not, or what kind of music you listen to anywayz?

not the labels theory again...no offense but it seems that everybody says so lately...
saying that a band is postpunk is not exactly labelling..

Very much so Lilith... You can definitely hear a direct correlation between bands like Type O Negative and the Sisteres of Mercy, who are two of my favourite bands incidentally...

Type O took advantage of modern production techniques to achieve a sound which is, in my opinion, really inspired, but you can hear the Sisters of Mercy in the Changes and the Instrumentation, and definitely in big Pete's Vocals...

Industrial music tends to make use of "comping" and electronic sampling...

Trent Reznor was very big on comping. This is where you take an instrument or anyhting which makes a sound you like, make a several minute long track of it (or even several tracks) , and then listen back, keep the bits you like and loop them, and cut the parts you don't want out...

Funnily enough, comping has become widely used in the mainstream in recent years, as advances in computer technology (where the computer is used as the multitrack tape machine) have made editing sound very easy and cheap...