i think about a lot of things all the time and most of them play on my mind like an instrument, but this idea or theory as i call it i've thought about for a while now and i've never really been able to come to a substainable conclusion, maybe there's no real answer for it but i'd like to hear your opinions on it.

it was always my belief that anything that is built upon something should be followed through with respect to that foundation, obviously with time the foundations can still remain the same but implemented into a different form yet still in a way respecting those foundations upon which it is built. my theory always was that gothic was founded upon as a rebelian against the mainstream society, or the consumer society as it's known to me now, that mainstream society revolving around a time where christianity was the unquestionable belief that you absoloutly could not have an opinion against or it would result in harsh consequences, such as in the practice of black magic or the belief in evil itself, or just to have an opinion against what the mainstream was built upon. it's these foundations that makes me think, what really defines a social outcast, because it's ourselves that choose to "outcast" ourselves in by having an opinion against everything it is, but in by doing so you become a new society as such. i think of the mainstream as a consumer society, being a satanist this is what my beliefs are built upon with trying to break from this consumer society and to become truely free.
satanism is not what people think it is, the whole thing has been twisted around and presented to be something totally out of the question, typical stereotypes like killing cats by the light of the moon, or suicide in sacrifice of the devil, as i call him the dark lord and it really does make you think. infact rules come in the form of, you cannot kill animals unless for food or self defence, and also harm to children is a big no no.
it also encourages you to persue the things that bring you enjoyment through life and is also the first religious organisation to accept gay and lesbian members. to think of it more as to break away from "slavery" within this consumer society is a more acurate representation to it's basis. learning to depend upon ourselves and bring this down to become truely free.
when you see the truth in that way you can see why goths have been misinterpreted to being satanic, i myself am gothic and a satanist yes, but those are my beliefs and nowhere does it say that those need to be implemented to be of such, it's what i believe and follow. yet it's far from what everyone thinks of it as depressive kids or a rebelian against the parents in a search to feel daring.
infact the restrictions of parents can be considered a form of slavery and the need to rebel against that is only human nature for the need to feel truely free, but those are your parents, they brought you up from childhood and looked after you and put a roof over your head, you start to realise as you get on they were only doing it for your own good, or just in the realisation of not quite seeing what the world revolves around today.

so now we start to see that it's ourselves who have outcast ourselves from society, for the simple fact we want to be outcast from "society", always called society, as if it's one big thing yet it's many, it's the mainstream society or consumer society that's the society in question. facts to support this are the hate we see against "mainstream" such as http://www.fuckthemainstream.com or the general need to show your different from everyone else, to show your views in a self explanitory manor and not have to explain it to every tom dick or harry that asks "why do you dress like that".

the idea is thought, the idea becomes a way of doing things, that way of doing things actracts like minded people and then the idea has become the institution. housing like minded people within this society, i like to think of it as a gothic society.
this is where the idea starts to get interesting, as we see that mainstream classes us as something else, anything else apart from what is considered "normal" as if they are trying to drive a knife into us and hurt us where it hurts the most. this only fuels the fire more as we see that they no longer class us as part of the mainstream, the objection is complete with the need to detach completly from what it's all about. yet with that completion comes a price, the emptyness that's felt inside like we no longer belong, that emptyness leads to depression and is where we start to see that it's through this the representation on gothic being depressed kids is comming from.
if that's the case, then it's mainstream that made us just by the fact it exists, and then we're outcast like something that doesn't belong to it when mainstream is suppose to be "an accepting way of life where all people can feel as one with each other", i don't have a clue how i thought that line up but it really hits home when you think about it.

if we yern to be accepted by society, but the whole foundation is built upon wanting to be no longer a part of the mainstream, how can this wish ever be possible with such restrictions upon us. with these restrictions we still feel bound by the rules of society, playing in our mind like something we can never quite figure out, yet it's always there and we feel it everyday.
as far as my opinion goes we will always be outcast from mainstream wether we wanted to be or not, it's this we have to accept to be able to overcome the emptyness felt inside or even begin to.

please remember this is my opinion and i'm not saying this is this and that is that, it's simply my opinion and i appoligise to those that feel offended by it.

My theory is that most people will see a hugely long post written by a newbie with an uber gawth avatar and not even read this, but instead either ignore you or mock you.

it's okay; i stopped reading after "i think"

so let me see, because i'm a newbie that means i know nothing? through the simple fact you've made 7000 posts compared to my 3? gee i guess i should post more and then i'll suddenly become inteligent. give me a break, i'm not forcing you to read it.

You aren't going to think that people are going to actually sit here and read everything that you wrote on this page do you. I my self stopped reading through the part where you were talking about how you've said "i think about alot of things."

I don't care to read the rest of it.

i honestly didn't expect many people to, and had i been able to say that in a short sentance i would of done. i don't like the fact i'm being grilled for not being able to state what i wanted to say in a few words, and if people have that much of a problem with it they should put a character limit on posts. go ahead and grill me if it makes you feel better, it doesn't matter to me.

For the record i'm not going to grill you. I don't have the energy or time do it. I'm just lazy to read your post is all. But don't give up hope. You'll get good comments as well as the bad.

i respect that and don't blame people for not wanting to read it, i just wanted to see what people thought, and if they had the time to read it then great, but if they didn't it's nothing i'm not used to. nobody ever has time for things like these, in hope maybe there will be, but i seriously doubt it.

Oh yes the will. I'll read it when i have energy hehe. Just give people time.

I'd read it as soon as my headache subsides, though just a question... What's "gawth" or even "uber gawth" about an upside down Penticle?

Ps. I'm sending this to Lifestyles.

please do, i wasn't sure where to post it as it didn't quite seem to fit any of the forums i saw. i'll remember where these things go from now on

you got it. first of all you need to learn a new key on your keyboard, known to the rest of the world as the 'period' key. it sits right above the 'alt' key on the right and is between the comma (,) and forward slash (/). i obvious that you think too much, you type the same way you think... on and on and on.


here's your biggest paragraph at nearly 300 words, but yet you've managed not to say a damn thing. you like satan, but don't kill cats or kids and think that goths are rebels. there, 15 words, that's all you needed.


so you think that gothic kids aren't a rebellious movement, they're just breaking away from the 'slavery' of society... which is exactly what hip hop kids, metal heads and ravers have done, but somehow this is unique? society is a collection of people, much like branches of the same tree, but each branch isn't exactly the same as the next. you know what that means? you're helping to make that society that you have tried to break away from.


parents are slave masters? haha.. that's good. lets keep going, aristotle.


a) nice plug for your website
b) you said absolutely nothing worth a shit in that paragraph.


*cutcutcut*

you're still part of society, buddy. look up there where i talked about the tree.


yeah, i have no clue how or why you thought that line up either, but it's complete horse shit. 'mainstream' is a bullshit term that kids use once they've buried themselves up to the hip in worthless classifications. it lets everyone else know that they are 'the real deal.'


i'll lump these two together since they're equally as worthless. i've read your long winded shit about and this is my opinion:

you sound like a kid that has a problem with authority, namely your dad, who probably told you that you look like a faggot when you put make up on and wore fishnets. you also sound like you're pissed off because you can't listen to limp bizkit ever since their second album when they sold out and went 'mainstream.' to top it off, you have no real hobbies and the word 'interesting' shouldn't be in your vocabulary.


by the way, welcome to darkforum.

don't start saying shit about my dad, i love him with all my heart and appreciate everything he does for me, he let's me do what i want to do without putting his opinion in and is always there to get me out the shit when i need it. so where is the rebelian there? obviously you can't relate to what i said as you've totally misinterprited it. *sighs and wait's for the next grilling*

Don't worry about it. Don't take what people say to you at heart. Remember this is the internet. You are not face to face with these people and that my friend is the best part of it all. People can be big shots behind a computer and be big with there words. You do have the magick power to ignore the rest of these ignorant fucks. I don't think that they will be brave enough to say all this stuff to your face anyways.

To be a satanist, one has to believe in God, since God created Satan, and the things I have seen in my life have convinced me that there can be no God...

Ok can we ease up on the nastiness? If you don't care for such a long essay then don't read it! Bad grammar can be a deterrent but let's try and give him/her a break! On the other hand, Krendoshazin, you need to realize that not everyone has to agree with you or take what you say seriously. But persevere, this is the way internet gatherings work, we're insanely critical about new flesh, so don't lose heart.

can you just delete this thread for me please, it's not worth it.. i actually thought i might get some serious responses, not just grilling after grilling.
i think from now on i'll just keep my opinions to myself

This is a sad reflection on the people who use this forum. Making someone feel unwelcome before he has even made ten posts is shameful... I hope you're all pleased with yourselves...