I was thinking about a coworker yesterday and why I disliked him so much. It all stemmed from a small statement about Harry Potter (yes this is relevant to the topic, just pay attention). He claimed he wasn't going to bring his kids to see Harry Potter because the writer was a wiccan and it was just another wiccan "plot" to taint the minds of kids everywhere.

I was instantly switched to attack mode. I didn't do anything and I'm still yet to even say anything to him. Nevertheless I realized why it struck such a cord with me. In my experience true Wiccans are some of the most unobtrusive people I've ever met. At least, in regards to their religion. Never have I met any Wiccan, or group of Wiccans with a demented plot to take over the world with their beliefs. As a matter of fact, from what I can tell, their overall impression on the subject is the less people they have the better. This is purely speculation of course as I'm not an active participant in any pagan belief (though it's what I lean to most). But I digress. Allow me to explain how this relates to us.

I can't say "I don't want to point any fingers" like most other people would when they were about to say what I'm about to say. That would merely demonstrate my incompitence because I am about to point my finger. And my finger points to, none other than, the Christians! Bare in mind though it's not the Christian religions, precisely, that I would blame for our harrasment and the overall fear of what we are. Rather, it's the Christian approach to beliefs and groups that appears to be the problem. You see, Christians, from what I can tell, are funny people. They think that just because their particular sect is trying to influence everyone into joining them, that every other group must be doing the same thing.

"I mean they must be, otherwise everyone would be Christian by now."

Except, everyone's not Christian, and noones really competing with them. You don't see Wiccan missionaries. You don't see Wiccan flyers, comic books, or pocket bibles do you? The belief in and of itself is what draws its members, and keeps them. There's nothing more to it. It is, in my opinion, the ideal way of going about the subject of religion.

So how does this relate to the gothic movement? Well every month there's a new article denouncing us and our so called "ways." And almost every article describes us as a cult. As if we're actively seeking out depressed angsty teenagers (which I'm sure you'll all agree are just as annoying as the next lifeform of flesh and blood), in an effort to add them to our subculture so we can forward our goal of... art? fashion? appreciation of the human psyche?

I suppose they figure that once we had every person on earth being gothic we'd all kill ourselves. And while I'll admit that would be pretty cool to see. I don't consider it practical, nor would I pursue that end by any means.

But just think about it. What goal do you have in being gothic? Hopefully none. I have none. I'm gothic because I am (Note that at this point I'm tired of side-stepping the label and just going with it, who really cares anyway?). Gothic is gothic. I am me. I am gothic. Gothic is me. It sounds like a Dr. Suess story but I can't think of any more accurate way to explain it.

In short: people don't fear/hate us because we're different. They fear/hate us because they're afraid we're trying to make them (or dear lord their children) different. When it's really quite the opposite. I don't give a bat's ass (my first corny goth pun - I'm so proud) who's gothic and if the trend (and it's not a trend) dies out, I don't plan on changing. As long as people can't just see us with their mind responding something like: "oh, hey, different person type thing, pay them no mind" we'll always be "evil" so to speak. And honestly I don't mind that generalization too much at all.

Feel free to flame me.

† - Bare in mind, I wrote this while listeneing to TKK so it may be a bit... influenced. Or even "tainted" if you will.

‡ - Also, I will completely understand if anyone/everyone disagrees with me. And you'll get no argument from me for deleting this post. I understand this has the potential to be a touchy subject.

Wow...that must have been one of the best posts I've read so far...you impress me, DarkStorm.

Oh it gets better. In case anyone who reads that doesn't know. Not only is the person who wrote Harry Potter not trying to enlist wiccans. She's not even wiccan! (Not a big surprise of course... unless you didn't know that.)

No, I haven't really paid that much attention to Harry Potter...I intend to read the books, but I'll wait untill the worst hype is over...

I don't intend to read it at all...

...I don't get enough fiction in my life. I should become a role-player.

I know your feelings on this. My younger brother, age 9 mind you, wanted to read the Harry Potter books because all his friends loved them. Now I had no problem with this. I love seeing my brothers reading because it gets them out of my hair and they become more cultured though it. But this is where my Father and Stepmom and I differ. The moment he mentioned this to my step-mom (name is Kaye) she told him absolutely not. She said it was just another ploy to warp young children's minds with black magic and Satan worshipping. If you can guess my brother was very upset, and so was I. I let them know it too.

We always have debates about these things, but this was taking it too far. And I thought "Ok, they are just being a bit extreme" but I was wrong. It's not just them. After attending their church as I am forced to do every other weekend, I found out they all believed the same way. I was very annoyed with this.

Now I would think if they were so secure in their beliefs they would let the child read the book. I mean sure their minds are rather impressionable at that age but I thought they would expect him to know the truth for what is not. At least their truth. But know, they are so insecure with their religion that they refuse anything that might challenge or differ from their religion.

So when the movie came out, my mother took us to see it. I was pleasently surprised with the story. And he absolutely loved it. We made sure he went and told Kaye all about it.

But this is yet another reason why I feel Christianity has become just another warped religion bent on power.

Hear hear!!
I like this darkstorm... there is no argument or deleting coming from me!!
In fact, I'm going to shift it up to the top of the page, it's so good. I don't think anyone else could have written it better than you. I am most impressed!!

Here in Australia, they made attempts to censor the crap out of the film. Then they got up on their little soap-boxes, flailed their arms about a little more, screaming how bad an influence all this black stuff has become.

It reminds me of what a chaplain once said to me... "I thought we'd killed all you people off in the crusades."

These are the people whose minds are small and feel the need to be controlled by the words of others. Self thought and imagination are not allowed... that's bad, you might actually see though the lies they churn out.
To them, we are a threat. To us, they are like the people devouring robot thingies from star-trek.

Anyhow, I'm interested to see how this thread goes!

Well done.:p

If everyone dressed goth (or was goth to some people view) then I`d put on various cowboy get ups.

You thought this would be deleted? *snicker*

I think you mean the Borg Shok.But I think they are more accepting in a way as they absorb cultures rather than just destroying or undermining them becuase they see the vaule of them.

One thing that really pisses me off is the way some parents go on. Always about stupid things that will 'corrupt my childs mind'. Christ! Its always the same old story. 'I will not let my child listen to Eminem because he/she will go out and kill people and take drugs' or 'My child will not watch this because he/she will mug old people and become a heroin addict'. Will these people realise that it does not matter what thier kids see or hear, if someone is going to commit a crime, they will commit a crime. Personally, I grew up listening to the sex pistols and anti nowhere league. I dont know if anyone has ever listened to the song 'So What' (by ANL) but it goes on about fucking goats and drinking piss. And I have never done anything like that in my life. Third person censorship is fucking outrageous!!! I will not be told what is or isn't suitable for me to watch! Its unbelivable! Kids see worse things on the news and on cartoons for fuck sake! Just for the record my son can watch and listen to whatever he wants, he can have peircings and tattoos. He can be gay, straight or niether. He can worship the devil, god, the toilet seat, or Right Said Fred because if you bring your child up to have respect for himself/herself and other people, chances are that you won't have anything to worry about!!!

Be yourself...

...and people will hate you.



Nothing new about that. But I do no longer care for those "people". I have found those I do care for, right here. Not in any other place have I seen so many radical opinions respected. Not in any other place dare I truly voice my own thoughts.

Unfortunately, most of those opinions are on the 'your not a goth' side...... so I suppose your motto works.... Be yourself and everyone will hate you!! :p *people who are offended will be hunted down and shot with a cackie shooter...... The sugar bowl told me so*

Do any of these parents remember what it was to be a child?

Besides all this stuff about media affecting thoughts and actions is bollocks. I mean how many people changed from being nasty to people to nice with people after watching a Christmassy film about loving your neighbor (go on name 37 people go on). Media doesn't affect your actions, it affects the style of your actions. After watching Rocky you may beat your little brother up with punches, but after watching Kickboxer you kick him, but only if you hit your little brother up anyway.

It hasn't been proven because the people who were affected were pychotic anyway, and it's not a statistically prelevant number.

And anyway Mary Whitehouse is Dead!!! Yey!

Wow, I'm pleased that my theory was so well recieved. Can I take this to mean that we've come to a consensus on the subject and all agree that this is why we're so hated?

I think media representation has a lot to do with how people view the Goth and the whole 'alternative' scene, even though there is no limit to the misrepresentation media can give any group.

Most people, I think, just believe the first believeable thing put to them.

A lot of it has to do with how the 'Goth scene' used to be and in some cases still is.

We don't play up to normal expected concenrs and therfore don't conform in a way the media can exploit.

It has bene bought out and I imagine the indusrty of one-upmanship is still to blame

That's why the whole scene is becoming 'i'm more goth then you'.

Who cares. If you see me I'm not a goth. I was, but too many people started cloning the whole hting so I realised if I'm me, then I'm the only me I can be and nobody else can be me in quite the same way.

Neon

I'm gothier than thou!!!


*kidding*

You Dissin' us *l*

Neon

hey..i read your thing and i understand where your coming from..but some people dont think of you guys as "evil" or "weird" i mean i dont really have a problem with gothic people its just some of them believe in satan and actually go out and do things that actually do harm people and i have a question..that question is why? alot of people are misunderstood and stuff..its all apart of this unfair life you know..? well i just felt that you have a strong opinion and i wanted a say in this..ok well then imma go
lates