There are two main reasons why black metal and its followers are confused with goths and gothic rock.

Firstly, there are elements of dress and style in common; dark clothes, monochrome make-up, weird silver jewelry, etc. As a general rule though, if you see an upside-down cross, pentacle (five pointed start in a circle)with a point directly downwards, or any satanic message, the wearer is a black metaller and not a goth.

Secondly, black metal can quite correctly be referred to as "gothic music" - meaning "barbarous, uncouth" (OED). "Gothic Rock", or simply "goth" is what describes the music of the post-punk subculture that is the subject of this document.

Black metal tends to have associated with it Satanism, and in some cases racism. Goths abhor racism, and, goth is not about religion (of any kind).

Heavy metal, in particular bands such as Black Sabbath and Metallica are sometimes labeled 'gothic' also. Again it is not part of the gothic movement. Some goths do appreciate the music however, but then there are those who appreciate the Spice Girls, Aqua, or the pop-trend of the day.

This may not go down well, but I feel (specifically with dress) that Goth is far more refined that Metalhead wear. That is how one is immediately able to discern when in a room full of both, which is which.. the clothing says it all! Black may be prevalent yes, but it's the manner in which black is worn! Though these two genres have pretty much always co-existed where I am from, yet I found the opposite to be true in London. They do not cross the divide at ALL!

As far as the music is concerned, I do not see how the two genres can be mistaken for the other. Though interestingly enough, either sub-culture can listen to the other's style of music!

Actually yes, i totally agree with you on the dress thing..........goth is far more refined/has alot more class to it. Just walking through the local midieval shop says it all.

Around here though there are so few "goths" and more ppl who "think" they are goth that its kinda funny to see how they mingle and intermix.....especially at the clubs, and parties, and we do not have one "goth" club around here. Usually they hang in the punk clubs though.

Yes it's difficult when a scene is small, that is why here other genres mingle together to form it's own type of genre/scene.
It was really weird to see that in London they avoid each other like the plague!

...I wonder what happens when Cradle of Filth plays there....


"RUMBLLLLLEE"

there's lots of other genres that can be considered as Goth

like, for example .. Dark Wave/ethereal music - ala Black Tape For A Blue Girl, Voltaire, Faith And The Muse etc ..

... but isn't being gothic just a frame of mind? And if so, then isn't music and looks just a trivial mute point? Can't somebody be truly "gothic" without fitting the mold?

not in pink

haha no? and why not?

*puts on his bright pink shirt*

WOW to Goth or not to Goth!!! on the subject music and how it "defines" a genre I would submit bands like Cradle of Filth who are classed as black metal but are goth as hell, I would also add in the Misfits, while not only being the greatest band ever they have managed to capture the hearts of goths punks and metallers the world over but are classed as punk ( Im sure Jerry would disagree, ). Whats cool about goths at least where I live, is they are very open to different music. It can range from jazz classical Bulgarian folk singing( no really...) I guess for me its all about a mood or imagery that a particular sound can evoke. I ve always thought of my music as a soundtrack to my personal darkness

It's amazing how when you look back, there is a soundtrack to your life, songs which maybe epitomize the mood of certain times...

I like that. and i would have to say, it is for me too

Does that mean if i like metal then i can't be goth?
Well, then...i'll create a new race of goths...metalhead goths!
They shall be deadly etc etc!!!:metalhead

then i will join your new race as 80% of what i listen to is some form of metal or another...

Go One! Already it grows!

The new race will defy you all!

Black Metal and Goth music are obviously very closely linked, as are the styles of dress that are associated with them. Black Metal is a melting pot of different styles and ideas from the 80's...

Yeah where would we be without Venom ( best metal band ever!!!) or Celtic Frost! and as much as they suck, cant ignore Mercyful Fate and the daffy dane,( AKA King Diamond) it was them that really brought a true gothic influence into metal. Fuck Im old....

And you can definitely, talking of eighties influence, hear an influence of the old Goth bands, like the Sisters and Fields of the Nephilim on Type O's music... In my opinion one of the best bands around at this moment in time...

Hmm to a degree, they can blend effortlessly, and has always done so here, but I wouldn't go so far as saying (especially true for today) that the styles of dress are similar. Black being the theme, yes, but not the overall look. But then again, that would just hold true for here and Europe it seems. Because from what I have realized from posts on this board, US scenes are really rather different. Or rather just the opinions of people from the States that post here and what they encounter. For instance, in the UK the Metal scene (in all its facets) do not mix with the Goth scene at all. The Fetish scenes and the Goth scenes blend far more than with any other scene. (Goth scene including all the sub-genres that seem to exist today!)
Here however, the Goth and Metal scene have co-existed for as long as there has been music and a scene. And the styles of music and dress differ SO vastly yet there is a common ground... An Alternative Lifestyle.