Fear | Condemnation | Why we're never understood - Page 8 - Darkforum.com - Dark Stories, Dark Art, Poetry, Photography, Debates and Discussions

NMaries · 09-14-02

Some people just like to argue. You have to take them into account too. I had a friend that would argue against whatever someone said. I would watch her argue with someone. Sometimes I agreed with her. I'd try to talk to her later about it, then she'd argue against me and go against everything she just said to someone else. It was interesting, like a way of refining the edge on her sword.

thefinalw0rd · 09-14-02

Hi. I'm Christian. I'd like to think I have an open mind.

DarkWind · 09-14-02

Quote:

Originally posted by prometheus
When I'm going to work, dressed in a suit, collar and tie, everyone I pass gives me friendly nods and looks of approval...

And yet when they see me in my less than formal attire I wear to go about my business, and it isn't even particularly outrageous, black jeans, a leather bikers jacket with tassles, and a T-shirt with the sleeves cut off, and an assortment of earrings, breacelets and rings, many of the same people don't recognise me, and look straight ahead, being careful not to make eye contact...

I am the same person on both occasions... I am not an unfriendly or ignorant man... Very strange...

Yeah alot of people are Judgemental and think that people that were that kind of clothing are bad people and usually the bad people are the ones dressed in normal clothing.I hate it but it will probubly never change.

thefinalw0rd · 09-15-02

I doubt it will.

NMaries · **Okay -** 09-15-02

Quote:

Originally posted by thefinalw0rd
Hi. I'm Christian. I'd like to think I have an open mind.

Is that your name or your religion? Having an open mind and being a sucker are two different issues.

thefinalw0rd · 09-16-02

That's my religion, thanks.

NMaries · 09-17-02

It's good you are open minded. Rare to see when it seems like so many use their religion to try to gain power. Making up rules to condemn people, when the bias is in love of God and people. Like in Matthew about the hypocrits, you may actually practice your religion.

thefinalw0rd · 09-17-02

The ones who do that are not Christian. They're some warped vision of it.

Droog · **Re: Fear | Condemnation | Why we're never understood -** 09-29-02

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkStorm
I was thinking about a coworker yesterday and why I disliked him so much. It all stemmed from a small statement about Harry Potter (yes this is relevant to the topic, just pay attention). He claimed he wasn't going to bring his kids to see Harry Potter because the writer was a wiccan and it was just another wiccan "plot" to taint the minds of kids everywhere.

I was instantly switched to attack mode. I didn't do anything and I'm still yet to even say anything to him. Nevertheless I realized why it struck such a cord with me. In my experience true Wiccans are some of the most unobtrusive people I've ever met. At least, in regards to their religion. Never have I met any Wiccan, or group of Wiccans with a demented plot to take over the world with their beliefs. As a matter of fact, from what I can tell, their overall impression on the subject is the less people they have the better. This is purely speculation of course as I'm not an active participant in any pagan belief (though it's what I lean to most). But I digress. Allow me to explain how this relates to us.

I can't say "I don't want to point any fingers" like most other people would when they were about to say what I'm about to say. That would merely demonstrate my incompitence because I am about to point my finger. And my finger points to, none other than, the Christians! Bare in mind though it's not the Christian religions, precisely, that I would blame for our harrasment and the overall fear of what we are. Rather, it's the Christian approach to beliefs and groups that appears to be the problem. You see, Christians, from what I can tell, are funny people. They think that just because their particular sect is trying to influence everyone into joining them, that every other group must be doing the same thing.

"I mean they must be, otherwise everyone would be Christian by now."

Except, everyone's not Christian, and noones really competing with them. You don't see Wiccan missionaries. You don't see Wiccan flyers, comic books, or pocket bibles do you? The belief in and of itself is what draws its members, and keeps them. There's nothing more to it. It is, in my opinion, the ideal way of going about the subject of religion.

So how does this relate to the gothic movement? Well every month there's a new article denouncing us and our so called "ways." And almost every article describes us as a cult. As if we're actively seeking out depressed angsty teenagers (which I'm sure you'll all agree are just as annoying as the next lifeform of flesh and blood), in an effort to add them to our subculture so we can forward our goal of... art? fashion? appreciation of the human psyche?

I suppose they figure that once we had every person on earth being gothic we'd all kill ourselves. And while I'll admit that would be pretty cool to see. I don't consider it practical, nor would I pursue that end by any means.

But just think about it. What goal do you have in being gothic? Hopefully none. I have none. I'm gothic because I am (Note that at this point I'm tired of side-stepping the label and just going with it, who really cares anyway?). Gothic is gothic. I am me. I am gothic. Gothic is me. It sounds like a Dr. Suess story but I can't think of any more accurate way to explain it.

In short: people don't fear/hate us because we're different. They fear/hate us because they're afraid we're trying to make them (or dear lord their children) different. When it's really quite the opposite. I don't give a bat's ass (my first corny goth pun - I'm so proud) who's gothic and if the trend (and it's not a trend) dies out, I don't plan on changing. As long as people can't just see us with their mind responding something like: "oh, hey, different person type thing, pay them no mind" we'll always be "evil" so to speak. And honestly I don't mind that generalization too much at all.

Feel free to flame me.

† - Bare in mind, I wrote this while listeneing to TKK so it may be a bit... influenced. Or even "tainted" if you will.

‡ - Also, I will completely understand if anyone/everyone disagrees with me. And you'll get no argument from me for deleting this post. I understand this has the potential to be a touchy subject.

Those Guys drive me fucking nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!

thefinalw0rd · 10-09-02

Its certainly annoying. Especially how people will take something that is completely harmless, such as Harry Potter, and warp it. It's pathetic.

Fallen_Star · 10-10-02

I can't stand Harry Potter.

thefinalw0rd · 10-12-02

Yeah, but its harmless...

And it takes the place of non-cliche fantasy material, which I'm hard-pressed to find...

I read them. I didn't mind them. What I don't like is the gigantic phenominon behind it....all the marketing and stuff...I despise that.

SavageBloodCat · 10-13-02

Harry Potter's different, and creative. A lot of thought went into this, even though suddenly moronic people are complaining about the contents of the books. Whatever, I LIKE it, and they ain't gonna change my mind.

Heh. Meow.

thefinalw0rd · 10-14-02

Yeah. Amen. I think.

crying childe · 10-16-02

oh thank fuck im back. ive missed this place sooooooooo much, anyway isnt the next film coming out soon, should be interesting to see reactions to that..............

i have nothing more to say cept I MISSED YOU GUY'S!!!!!!!!!!!!

thefinalw0rd · 10-27-02

Yeah, I didn't know we had that effect on people.

Sphyre · 10-27-02

Quote:

Originally posted by SavageBloodCat
Harry Potter's different, and creative. A lot of thought went into this, even though suddenly moronic people are complaining about the contents of the books. Whatever, I LIKE it, and they ain't gonna change my mind.

Heh. Meow.

See I disagree with that. To me, Harry Potter is just the same old thing a few new twists thrown in... *shrugs* That's my opinion, don't read too much into it. What bothers me that most about the book, however, is the fact that it's a child's book and suddenly high schools and colleges have made it a book that students must read. That I think is stupid. Sure, some adults may enjoy it, but in reality it will teach these students nothing. Give them something that will make them think a little harder.

As for the people who want to boycott it based on Christianity, to them I have this to say: Read the Chronicles of Narnia carefully. Yes, they were written by a Christian philosopher, but he uses pagan creatures all over the fucking place. And yet, dispite the fact that none of those books ever actually talk about Christ, His Father, or the Holy Spirit, it is considered a Christian series. And that's just stupid. The idea of Aslan being like Christ because he was resurected (in one book) is insane. Many male pagan deities are brought back to life throughout the course of mythology. As for the last book and how it's like "Revolation", again I say look at other religions and their myths. Aside from those and a few other scattered points throughout the series, there are no paralles between the Bible and those books. And any anyone can find can be found in another pagan myth. And yet, it is a classic series Christian parents read to their children. In my case, it was just one of many elements of my younger years that got me interested in different elements of history, pagan mythology, and ancient religions... So it kind of backfired on them, didn't it?

The point of that is, if we are going to burn Harry Potter books, why not burn the Chronicles of Narnia? It makes just as much sense.

thefinalw0rd · 10-27-02

Lets burn everything and become facist.

Sphyre · 10-27-02

Hey, it's a plan. Though I honestly do use that whole Narnia thing as an argument with these people.... They look at me stupidly when I'm done.