Oi... Did you read my post by the way, Billy?!

how do we know that you're not goth?! maybe you're keeping it confidential, trying to pick out real goths on df and the posers! its a conspiracy i tell you!

hmm...something to ponder i suppose

Well, yes, this has become rather useless.

And why is that?

death is only a part of life though, and what about grave robbers and morticians... theyre interested in death, are they goth?

Nooooooooooooooooooooo its too long, cant you summerize for me? IM a busy busy man.

being something is all about self identity and being accepted by that community...for example i identify as being italian, and italians idenify me as being italian. which makes me so. I do not identify as goth nor do goths usually identify me as goth.. i guess im not goth.

why do you always rip on 'us' goths, then?

i'm sure that its possible that some of them were , at least at some point. i mean, most people don't look at a job ad for being a mortician and say ''hey, that looks like fun!" and grave robbing is just plain gross, if you ask me.

the death business is a gold mine if you got the gus for it, face it most people who want a funeral spare no expense for thier departed lvoed one.. with that said i know many morticians, i had a buddy whos father was a mortician and none of them were goth.

"why do you always rip on 'us' goths, then?"

Good question... i guess for a few reasons.
A. i dont believe an actual gothic culture exists, i believe most people who "claim" to be gothic are actually not gothic, theyre just call themselves that and follow a differnt culture. There is no such thing as a gothic subculture because its not somehting that exists naturally, and too many people slip into and out of it. Which means that it cant be real in the 1st place, a culture is a set of traditions evolved froma group of people who needed it to survive from a particular environment, its not somehting you just claim to be and wear certain cloths and all of a sudden your it... but thats what happens to "gothic" people...therefore i dont believe a true gothic culture exists.

2ndly: most gothic people ive met are asshole, poseurs and fakers. Noone can agree if one thing or another is gothic, this wishy washy mentality makes it impossible for them to know what goth IS let alone how to BE gothic.

3rdly, most goths are easy targets for ridicule because they LONG to belong to SOMETHING ANYTHING that they can excel in, for example the smart kids all hang out in math clubs, the strong kids are on sports teams, the hot girls and whatnot are the party kids, and the less desireable kids, or kids who are too shy or not into group things find Goth to be more palatble because it doesnt look stringent on te surface, it looks accepting, but once your in it...its NOT noone can agree on a single thing and the definitions change again and again making them all look like fools, goths are easy to make fun of for thier desperation to belong or to seem unique. afterall true uniqueness doesnt come from a culture, it comes from the wya you define your world, and you dont have to be gothic to be unique.

God Bless America.... except for those who accept the ideals of satan rather than the literal figure. You only have to acknoledge the bible, not what it proposes to be the truth.Yeah, we had actual burnings over here, I'm pretty certain a few of them must have been non-christian (witches only in a few sense's of the word), possibly even a couple of pagans.Its an oxymoron, one of the few things that all Goths have in common is a strong tendency towards non-racism. A Goth would never join the KKK willingly in an informed decision.Oh that's easy. Goth is a term for people who are part of the Gothic Subculture in some way A true Gothic culture doesn't exist is probably why you believe that ... a Gothic subculture does exist, it is something that exists socially inside, but distanced from the edicts of mainstream culture. It may seem unreal because there are actually multiple Gothic subcultures existing in each different type of [mainstream] culture, all of which share loose ties in varying degrees, but enough to remain a subculture, if the main culture vanished, the subculture may well become a culture afterall.Multiple ... many people know what the Gothic subculture is, they just can't explain it.I haven't changed my definitions, I just don't bother explaining them, why would I want to in the end? You need to hang around with Goths more (hint hint).

Thgis is for Lilith who I think wants me to post more.

I'm just glad you saved me the trouble of saying something similar to Billy.

Well, i dont buy into the notion of a subculture, you belong to a single culture, i dont believ epeople can belong to mulitple cultires because theres a degree of acceptance form that society that you would need. FOr example american "goths" belong to the american culture, English ones belong to the english culture. unless maybe thier indian englishmen then theyd be indian british culture goths... either way i dont believe that Goth is a culture in any way shape or form, its just a lable people use to try to seperate themselves when in fact IMO theyre not seperate people. Thats why noone can explain what goth is... you can explain any culture in the world pretty much because the culture evolved froma race, religion and environment. GOth doesnt fit this cultural melody and therefore is unexplainable, like i said when you belong to a culture thats what you are... theres no turning back, because youll always have the ehtics of that culture ot tthe people of that culture will identify you as that..with that being said too many people slip into and out of "goth" culture... this shouldnt be possible if it was a true culture... i think anyhow...but then i dont habng out with enough goths....anymore

personally i think goth is more of a trend/fashion like hip hop.

Good points, though perceptions of reality are relative, and realities are created via said perceived perceptions. One human race, yet an extensive diversity of colours and creeds, yet still one race in the end. People have formed sub-cultures for the longest times, society's evolving phases and rebellion against this has always brought forth groups of like-mindedness, and eventually you will find a certain mindset that sticks, because it works, because one can relate to it, because it is an expression of one's soul.


Weird to narrow down such a vast criteria of a certain mindset to "assholes, poseurs and fakers". That there is a whole world beyond certainly begs one to know that not the whole planet's population of this particular lifestyle would all consist of the above mentioned?! I have met "assholes, poseurs and fakers" from just about all walks of life, yet I would not judge an entire sub-culture due to a few plonkers.

As for the third point (and do know I feel they are all valid points as this has been your experience) seems to largely be focused on "kids" and even though one can use the term liberally and pretty much directed at any age group, I do sense it really and truly is directed at kids. And precisely because of this fact it is pretty much superfluous for me to comment. I do feel however, that there truly is an enormous misconception between theoretical "goths" and practical "goths. Yes, given the extensive debates that have existed on this forum one would draw the conclusions that this lifestyle cannot be defined, I do wish to interject that when it comes to reality, as in people simply living their lives, they do not argue nor question whether they are "goth" or not. Or what is "goth" for that matter; they simply live their lives.

An understatement for sure.