 | | | Try my new toilet!
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10-30-03
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Originally Posted by Crypt this is someone who hasn't studied history | Apparently, I think I'd shit my pants if a Christian ever came in the forum, argues about something, and can actually be smart about it. I have never heard a Christian give an arguement that I could not give some sort of rebuttal to. Anywho.
"Sometimes when I feel like killing someone, I do a little trick to calm myself down. I'll go over to the person's house and ring the doorbell. When the person comes to the door, I'm gone, but you know what I've left on the porch? A jack-o-lantern with a knife in the side of it's head with a note that says "You." After that, I usually feel a lot better, and no harm done." To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. | |
|  | | So what? Forum Guide Mentor
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10-30-03
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Originally Posted by Metagion Not true on my end, Billy. My coven has collected over 500+ pounds of food for the local Food Bank, and anytime we're asked to help, we will, no questions asked.
You still love me? | of course i still love you, unfortunatly i dont think your coven is the majority. | |
| | | paraphiliac
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10-30-03
everyone should have a policy to help the less fortunate...but that's just my idealistic nature creeping in...it doesn't matter on the group, but the people...their approach to life...there aren't many good people anymore...they've lost touch with their nature...and intuitive sense of right and wrong.
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| | | lonely soul
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10-30-03
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Originally Posted by Jordyn everyone should have a policy to help the less fortunate...but that's just my idealistic nature creeping in...it doesn't matter on the group, but the people...their approach to life...there aren't many good people anymore...they've lost touch with their nature...and intuitive sense of right and wrong. | yup that's the problem with the western civilization, ever been in Africa or in the east, those people are really friendly and will share their shelter and food even they don't have that much for themselves | |
| | | So what? Forum Guide Mentor
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lol, are you kidding? Western Civilization has been the most giving in history... i dont remember china or africa sending relief aid to Serbia when it was in trouble, or sending food and supplies to CHile when it had its earthquakes. | |
| | | lonely soul
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10-30-03
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Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd lol, are you kidding? Western Civilization has been the most giving in history... i dont remember china or africa sending relief aid to Serbia when it was in trouble, or sending food and supplies to CHile when it had its earthquakes. | could that be caused by the economic situation in Africa hmm?
and i wasn't talking about states as an political subject but cititizens living there, if every little fucker from america, england, france or wherever would help with a simple pound or dollar it would help a lot, don't you think? | |
| | | Voice of Unerring Reason
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Hi, I've decided to take your argument apart into segments and respond to it systematically so that i cna better respond to your initial premise Quote: |
Originally Posted by heavensfury I am damn sick and tired of hearing Pagans,witches and other non believers or athiests complain about Christians and Christianity. This complaining includes, but is not limited to...."Christians are mindless fools who follow the lies of the church......." or, "There is no such thing as a true or good Christian because none of them are living as devoted followers of Christ......" or, "Christian churches are organizations of greedy, dishonest fools......" or, "Christianity is a close-minded system of beliefs and those who follow it are also close-minded....." etc., etc.. | Most Christians I have yet to say 'theres is a chance I could be wrong' I know faith precludes this sort of activity. But blind faith is just that blind. It can't see that there is a chance it could be worng. Creationism for example. The word of the Bible as absolute law with no possibility for error despite excruciating contradiction, especially throughour most of leviticus then restated by Jesus. Quote: |
Originally Posted by heavensfury Blah, blah. Why must they constantly try to prove to the world how "stupid" Christianity is?. | Christianity is stupid. Any orgnaised relgion which preaches what is essentially a uniquie and exceptionally personal and intemite realtionship with your higher pwoer in wahtever form that may take, is stupid. It's trying to mould 800 million christians into one fundamental realtionship with god when relastically and practically there should be 800 million different and highly unique relationships with the demiurge. Quote: |
Originally Posted by heavensfury Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow.....
On the topic of money and offerings in church and within Christian organizations....I hate to break the news to everyone who complains about this, but every organization needs money. Churches of all types take up offerings to pay for maintenance and upkeep of the church, which usually includes paying someone to clean and remodel, paying for electric, gas, and other utilities, paying for any dinners or special gatherings, paying the pastor for his work (yes, pastors get paid because many of them consider preaching their full-time job), paying to support missionaries or mission groups that travel, give to various charities, and the list goes on. Are Pagans really aware of what it takes to keep a church financially sound? Apparently not. Yes, there are greedy Christians out there, yes, there are churches and organizations that just want your money, etc. Look around, there are "bad" people everywhere. What dumbass can't see that, yes, the world is full of greed and dishonesty? But the majority of Christian churches just want to take care of their church in a fair and honest way. That's what the offering is for. When a church asks for an offering for "God," this simply means give some money to help keep God's house a nice place for everyone to visit. See? Is that difficult to understand? How can an organization function without money? It can't.. | It can't but televangallism....a quote form the band genisis 'if you you want to get closer to him, get on your knees and start paying'. If Christians are so up in arms agaisnt this greed why haven't they waged bloody and brutal holy war on the abuse of the church? COuld you see Televangelical islam? No, why. Because you don't want to mess around with fundamentalist Islam. Quote: |
Originally Posted by heavensfury Yes, I know there have been idiots who, while posing as Christians, lied to the public and stole money from everyone who donated to them. There still are idiots like this. Why hold this against all Christians? If you do, you're a jackass.. | fair point...but there have been CHurch sanctioned abuses of this type. The main reaosn the protestantism movement came about was because of the sale of indulgences (writs of Papal forgiveness for sin). The abuses caused by selling these indulgences pissed of Luther so bad that he wrote his 95 Thesis outlying the greed of the Catholic church at that time. Quote: |
Originally Posted by heavensfury You're Not a Devoted Christian
Many of them say it. They are Pagans or something else, (or at least non-Christians) yet they seem to be authorities on who is a devout Christian and who is not. Pagans know how every Christian thinks, how they pray, what their true motives are? No, they don't. Mr. Joe Christian down the street got caught speeding....holy crap, a Christian broke the law! "He isn't a 'real' Christian!" My ass. I'll tell you what he isn't.....he isn't a perfect human being. Know why he's not a perfect human being? Because no such being exists. Christians disobey their God's teachings at times, Christians make mistakes, they might even break the law sometimes. They might cuss now and then, they might not "do unto others" now and again, they might covet their neighbor's car.....or wife, they might forget to pray before bedtime, they might punch someone out for acting like a jerk instead of turning the other cheek.....they're human. The difference between a Christian human and a non-Christian human is that the Christian's general attitude will be to do his or her best to follow Christ's teachings, to do his or her best to live how Christ might intend. For some, their best isn't that great. For others, their best means being damn near perfect. But being imperfect, breaking a rule here and there, being a little "bad" once in a while....it happens to Christians and non-Christians alike. It's human nature. This does not mean a person is not a devoted Christian.. | I can't argue with this it is a fair point. But when Priests are involved in hushed up child abuse rings not just simple single priest scandels or when the preacher is the only one in the only one in the village with good clithes, good food a nice 2 storey house and a car while the rest of the people struggle to make a subsistance living, you have to wonder as to the hypocracy inherent. Quote: |
Originally Posted by heavensfury Phobia
Why are Pagans and athiests so offended by Christian organizations- almost afraid of them to the point that they create paranoid theories about them, even create little "mottos" about Christianity that they think are so clever and insightful? Ever heard of homophobia? You know, how people say that certain straight folks are afraid of gays, thinking the gay lifestyle will "rub off" if they get to close? Usually, homophobia includes verbal attacks against gays, creating paranoid theories about them, displaced anger and unnecessary hatred toward them. Hmmm. Well, I think a lot of Pagans have "Christophobia." All these Pagans with their meaningless hatred (they say they don't hate, only disagree, but I think it's bullshit), paranoid theories, all their little mottos about how stupid Christians are....I think they are afraid. Afraid that if they try to be nice, try to understand, and try to be open-minded with Christians, some Christian ideas might rub off. And how uncool would that be for a hard-core, greenman loving, goddess worshipping, athame-wielding Pagan to actually have nice things to say about Christianity? What would everyone think? To actually shut your pie hole and stop verablly bashing Christians.....well, that would be almost un-Pagan!. | I do fear christians because you're all inherently evil and don't even realise it. You are institutionally homophobic. You villify Homosexuals who actually couldn't give a damn about you and your lifestyle. They don't specifically wish you malice.
You interfear with my morailty and tell me I'm wrong when I'm doing no harm. You MUST be the one, you are THE ONE. You're an exclusive club that if you're not a member then you'r enot in the cool gang...the afterlife club....
This flies entirely in the face of All all loving good which preaches mercy to the just and rightous. Quote: |
Originally Posted by heavensfury Well, some Christians don't like us! They say we are going to hell! -So I guess that means all us non-Christians should act like immature asses and create ideas about how stupid Christianity is, right?. | no, we should see through your attempts at fear based conversion. Quote: |
Originally Posted by heavensfury Oh no, there are people in the world who give Chrisitanity a bad name. Oh no, the Christian religion doesn't suit you or your lifestyle. So freaking what? Just because you think Christianity is stupid, this doesn't make it so. If you don't like Christianity, don't like the way Christian churches conduct themselves, don't like Christian political views, moral views, and just generally don't like the religion....isn't that why you are a non-Christian? So.....why can't that fact speak for itself?
And if you think I'm stupid for complaining about this topic, then feel free to clicky clicky on your back button and find something else to read.
By the way- another peeve I will mention- "Xian." I hate when Pagans spell Christian this way. Morons.. | No the inherent contradictory stupidity of christianity makes it stupid. Quote: |
Originally Posted by heavensfury Yes, anyone is free to be "Christophobic" if they want. Just seems there are more important causes to devote our time to.
Thank you, thank you very much. | thank you too
"I've oft been told by learned friars
That wishing and the crime were one
And heaven punishes desires
As much as if the deed were done.
If wishing damns us, you and I
Are damned to all our hearts content.
Come then we may at least enjoy
Some pleasure for our punishment..."
Sir Thomas More | |
| | | Dark Q
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10-30-03
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Originally Posted by waterbearer ok my friend - I will give the benefit of the doubt here... but even Mother Teresa talked about things she did  | Yeah, probably because she was asked  | |
| | | Registered User
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10-30-03
well then start asking silly
Forgiveness? That's between you and your God. I'm just here to make sure that you keep your appointment. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. | |
| | | Dark Q
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10-30-03
why should I? I already know | |
| | | Marcus' bitch!!
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10-30-03
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Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd of course i still love you, unfortunatly i dont think your coven is the majority. |
Good....now let's have sweaty hair-pulling sex, mmkay? That would ROCK! 
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| | | The Meat is in the Middle
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10-31-03
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Originally Posted by waterbearer yes Meatros... you would have to believe everything the Christian faith holds to be true... try to do that - i know its hard - i have a tough time with it too... but you have to try to remain balanced in your responses
you dont have to believe it for real... just the scenario | Putting on an old frame of eyes....Hmm...
Well, I'd say that it's entirely hypocritical then-you could live the most wicked life and five minutes from the end you could get forgiven and avoid punishment.
Contrast that with someone who's never heard of Christ, who's lived a great life, helped others, and been the example of all that's good-who ends up in Hell for being born into the wrong religion and not having a chance to worship Christ. | |
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10-31-03
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Originally Posted by Meatros Putting on an old frame of eyes....Hmm...
Well, I'd say that it's entirely hypocritical then-you could live the most wicked life and five minutes from the end you could get forgiven and avoid punishment.
Contrast that with someone who's never heard of Christ, who's lived a great life, helped others, and been the example of all that's good-who ends up in Hell for being born into the wrong religion and not having a chance to worship Christ. | Exactly!
Hence why I can personally believe that a religion based on that premise is a hypocritical one.
Damn I wish I could find that Heinlein quote ... it used to be on the old sigs thread.
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| | | So what? Forum Guide Mentor
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10-31-03
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Originally Posted by Meatros Putting on an old frame of eyes....Hmm...
Well, I'd say that it's entirely hypocritical then-you could live the most wicked life and five minutes from the end you could get forgiven and avoid punishment.
Contrast that with someone who's never heard of Christ, who's lived a great life, helped others, and been the example of all that's good-who ends up in Hell for being born into the wrong religion and not having a chance to worship Christ. | again your weighing in on the negative aspects of a human made religion which isnt infallible.. when are you going to get that through your head? | |
| | | The Meat is in the Middle
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Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd again your weighing in on the negative aspects of a human made religion which isnt infallible.. when are you going to get that through your head? |
Have you read a single thing I've written? Of course I know it's fallible! Sorry if I don't take a keen eye to your bronze-age mythologies. The bible is just a merging of other myths in the area at that time-there's nothing new with it.
What exactly was the point of this post of yours anyway?? | |
| | | Registered User
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10-31-03
A Ha! I found it - I love Google!
A long and wicked life followed by five minutes of perfect grace gets you into Heaven. An equally long life of decent living and good works followed by one outburst of taking the name of the Lord in vain - then have a heart attack at that moment and be damned for eternity. Is that the system?
Robert A. Heinlein
This one is good too:
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
Robert A. Heinlein
THAT's a smart guy.
oohhhh - and THIS:
Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful - just stupid).
Robert A. Heinlein
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Last edited by waterbearer : 10-31-03 at 09:03.
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| | | The Meat is in the Middle
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Gotta love Heinlein, I'm reading his book "The moon is a harsh mistress" right now... 
As far as what get's you into heaven-that's very debatable topic actually, seeing as some verses say by works, some by faith, some by both and IIRC there's even one that says if you blasphamize against the holy ghost-you aren't EVER getting into heaven.
Guess he doesn't have a sense of humor, eh? | |
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10-31-03
*giggles* No, apparently he doesn't... too bad really... it's rather ironicly funny....
Forgiveness? That's between you and your God. I'm just here to make sure that you keep your appointment. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. | |
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