but i want a fantastic life, i want to experience it in all it's glory...i'm a human, i'm going to enjoy it...

life as a christian = not peachy
life as a witch = very peachy

it's not brain surgery...

i have my eternity...it may be in service to some dark, broody animalistic beast in hell, but i'm naturally submissive and i'll have no regrets for my life, I lived, as i wanted to...not blindly guided by a misogynistic book, that some men who had no comprehension of the world today wrote, borrowing from, earlier, more heathen like histories, distorting them for their own...agendas, wrapping it all up by the word of god?

christianity has nothing to offer me...that i can't gain on my own.

god may love me, but i don't need him...i've got everything i need, want, and if not...i can whip up a spell, call up some energies...and have it. No prayer needed, and i can keep the bent knees for my husband's, pleasure.

i've had better, more respectable christians offer me the same speal...and with intelligent arguements, they've had me consede that to believe in and to work with the...demonic names i favor, i sort of have to believe that god too has influence in this world...but they accept that not all people care to be saved, and settle for a good discussion between our differing views.

if god doesn't care to put forth any effort to win my favor, why should you?

besides, satan was already here...

http://darkforum.com/showthread.php?t=12753

note the signature, monkey...are you a vegetarian?

LOL !! Blinding... yer taking on a hell of a place with this Hearsay of a religion your selling ..

MOST of the ppl that are answering your call are trying to show YOU things that you've been programed not to see ..you come in here trying to save the already saved ...WE'RE each walking the path we have choosen that fits our life and experiance to the best of our knowledge ..

Now I try not to belittle anyones faith ...however if your one of thoose BOOK followers you can stick it in yer arse !! and yeah GOD will forgive you for wasting your life with closed eyes in his name as another sucker of the ploys of the Organised systems ..

Almost the whole religion is based on CRAP ! or as fore mentioned the best parts of said religon were stolen from OTHERS So what the hell Do YOU think your following ?

Why would an all powerful GOD need a BOOK ?
So I guess if your blind or cant read yer screwed ! ,Cant follow the BOOK without reading it and PRYING for understanding but yes some one could read you the book but then it's just not the same ..BECAUSE the BOOKS so messed up it's almost unreadable ( But that's because its devine ) ..BULLSHIT !

Your God dosent work in mysterios ways YOUR GOD is a false God who is buried so deep in LIES and MISSDIRECTION That YES NAROW IS THE GATE !! so that many a sheep cant find there way out of the PENS to salvation ..But thats Sheepish metality Why do you need a gate WHEN once you KNOW GOD you can fly ?

Any of us here can defend anything you have to say ..And can show you HOLES in THE BOOK untill we grow bord with trying and all your kind will be able to do is qoute scripture and tell us we dont understand Gods ways ..

So instead of being a stupid Parrot preaching crap OPEN your heart and Mind to see past all the crap your good book has filled your head with ...

Here I'll share with you a simple formula for happiness ..Tho with out a blowing of trumpets,lights from above or a church sanction ,you will even try to consider the possible wisdom contained with in the below .. My gift to you my

I-CHI-AL ,one of it's tasks was to combine religion,philosophy,and science ..
but it can also be a guide to a way of life ..This and the concept of God that I follow have brought me much joy in my life and I do not fear for my SOUL ! and I dam shure DONT FEAR GOD ! thats just stupid !

GOD = MIND=REALITY
Jesus = Body=Matter
Holy Ghost =Spirit=Energey

ALL ARE ONE .

Think about it and it will enlighten your path and load ..Or better yet find me some flaws in the above system and you'll earn my respect and I'll have to go study some more etc.

But I also respect that we all have different needs ..So if you need your book and it brings you happiness and compfort then keep it .. But the only people who are going to any hell are the ones who put themselfs there !

Why did God need Noah? HE DIDNT ! Noah needed GOD !
"What does God ..Need ..with a Ship....? " Capt.Kirk Star Trek movie 5 see I can qoute script too !!

Here I'll give you reffereance ..(sp) lol ..

VOICE
Brave souls. Welcome.

Startled reactions.

McCOY
(hushed)
Is this the voice of God?

As if responding to McCoy's question, the energy shaft
throbs. From the swirling dust within it, a living form
begins to take shape. The shape is powerful, beautiful,
enticing.

Sybok and the others watch in wonder. The wind it kicks
up causes them to stagger back.

224 CLOSER ANGLE - ENERGY SHAFT 224

Within this maelstrom of power, the form of humanity
begins to take shape. And it takes on many forms, each
reminding us of the holy paintings that have depicted
the All-Mighty through the ages.

225 A SERIES OF SHOTS 225

We intercut between the shifting images of God and the
reactions of the Enterprise crew. One moment the figure
is Ra. The next, Allah. He's black. White. Female. Male.
Andorian. Klingon. Each witnesses a flash of his own
God.

226 KIRK, SPOCK AND McCOY 226

They watch the "God Show" with mounting fascination.

227 ENERGY SHAFT 227

The Being synthesizes into the Biblical Heavenly
Father of our imagination. (Note: The Being is con-
tained within the perimeters of the energy shaft,
unable to venture out of it.)

The Being turns his gaze to Sybok, Kirk, Spock and
McCoy. He beams with pleasure. His eyes twinkle.

BEING
Does this better suit your expect-
ations?

It does indeed. No one knows what to say. Sybok is vind-
icated, he can barely contain his ecstasy.

SYBOK
Qual se tu?

BEING
It is I.
(a pause)
The journey you took to reach me
could not have been an easy one.

SYBOK
It was not. The Barrier stood between
us -- but we breached it.

BEING
Magnificent. You are the first to
find me.

SYBOK
We sought only your infinite wisdom.

BEING
And how did you breach the Barrier?

SYBOK
With a starship!

BEING
Ah. This starship... could it carry
my wisdom beyond the Barrier?

SYBOK
It could. Yes!

BEING
Then I shall make use of this
starship.

SYBOK
(thrilled)
It will be your chariot!

Kirk politely raises a hand.

KIRK
Excuse me.

BEING
(ignoring Kirk)
It will carry my power to every
corner of creation...

KIRK
(insistant)
Excuse me.

The Being regards Kirk like he was a pesky insect.

KIRK
(continuing)
I just wanted to ask a question.

McCoy looks at Kirk like he just farted in church.

KIRK
(continuing)
What does GOD need with a starship?

The Being returns his attention to Sybok.

BEING
Bring the ship closer.

KIRK
I said... what does God need with a
starship?

McCOY
Jim, what're you doing?

KIRK
I'm asking a question.

The Being once again regards Kirk. Kirk stands his
ground.

BEING
Who is this creature?

KIRK
Who am I? Don't you know? Aren't
you God?

The smile leaves The Being's face. Thunder rumbles
faintly in the distance, underscoring his displeasure.

SYBOK
He has his doubts...

BEING
You doubt me?

KIRK
I seek proof.

McCOY
Jim, maybe you shouldn't ask him for
his I.D.

BEING
Then here is the proof you seek.

A bolt of energy shoots from the Being's eye and then
strikes Kirk full in the chest, knocking him to the
ground. Spock and McCoy look on in shock as Kirk, now
injured, tries to rise.

KIRK
(to Sybok)
Why... is God... angry?

Sybok is confounded. He addresses The Being.

SYBOK
I don't understand. Why have you
done this to my friend?

BEING
He doubts me.

Spock takes it upon himself to step forward.

SPOCK
You have not answered his question.
What does God need with a starship?

The Being's countenance turns dark. Another bolt shoots
from his eye and heads for Spock. Crash! Spock is
knocked to the ground.

228 INT. ENTERPRISE - BRIDGE 228

The crew can't comprehend this turn of events. Korrd,
Caithlin and Talbot look at each other in horror.

229 INT. AMPHITHEATER 229

The Being turns to McCoy.

BEING
Do you doubt me?

McCoy looks at The Being's handiwork -- his injured
friends.

McCOY
I doubt any God who inflicts pain
for his own pleasure.

The Being is on the verge of zapping McCoy when Sybok
interrupts.

SYBOK
Stop! The God of Sha Ka Ree would
not do this!

By way of reply. The Being smiles a truely wicked smile
and Sybok realizes to his horror that he's been tricked.

BEING
Sha Ka Ree?
(scornful laughter)
An eternity I've been imprisoned in
this place! The ship! I must have
the ship! Now give me what I want!

Spock shouts to his brother.

SPOCK
Sybok -- this is not the God of Sha
Ka Ree -- or any other God!

SYBOK
I don't understand...
(to the Being)
Reveal yourself to me!

230 ANGLE - THE BEING 230

Before our stunned eyes, the being changes into Sybok
himself -- a dark sinister reflection of Sybok. This
Evil Sybok laughs, enjoying the reaction.

BEING
What's wrong? Don't you like this
face? I have many but this one
suits you best.

231 ANGLE TO INCLUDE SYBOK 231

His self-realization is painful to behold.

SYBOK
No... it's not possible.

BEING
Bring me the ship or I will destroy
you!

SYBOK
(realizing the Being's
evil intention)
The ship...

BEING
Bring it closer so that I might
join with it. Do it or watch
these puny things die horribly.

The Being indicates Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

KIRK
(into his communicator)
Kirk to Enterprise. Listen carefully...

SYBOK
(turns to Sybok; in
agony)
Spock, what have I done?

SPOCK
(urgently)
Sybok...

SYBOK
(soul searching)
This is my doing! My arrogance...
my vanity...
(to the others with
sudden determination)
Save yourselves!

SPOCK
(realizing Sybok intends
to sacrifice himself)
No, Sybok!

Sybok raises his hand to Spock in the Vulcan gesture of
farewell.

SYBOK
Forgive me.

Sybok turns to face the Being, gathering up all his
power. Spock starts forward but Kirk holds him back.

232 OMITTED 232
- -
234 234

235 ANGLE - THE BEING AND SYBOK 235

Sybok has no fear as he confronts his evil mirror
image.

SYBOK
I couldn't help but notice your pain.

BEING
(caught off-guard)
My pain?

SYBOK
It runs deep. Share it with me.

Sybok boldly enters the shaft and embraces his evil
twin.

236 ANGLE - ENERGY SHAFT 236

An amazing spectacle. As they grapple, the good and
evil Syboks merge into one twisting and thrashing
body, clearly at battle with itself. The good Sybok
tears himself loose. He dominates the struggle until
the evil Sybok manages to rip through and fight back.
The two Syboks, good and evil, battle on... merging,
tearing apart.

So er ..blinding what religion and God was it that :
1 Is a Vengeful GOD ,and has killed many in his Wrath over and over?
2 Combine all the BLOOD spilled in any or all of the other known God's names and it pails before The Almighty !!!
3 To prove The Christian God is flawed ,it had to change it's ways ,thus needing to put out new rules in a second book because the fisrt set of rules was FLAWED !! and still nobody can read the dam thing!
4 What God is it that demanded a father to kill his only son ,Oh shure it's only because the father was faithful and killed livestock on a mountian top in his God's name that he was even given the child ,and it was just a test ( MIND FRIGGER !)!
4 What religion is the one which celebrates the creation of The Undead ? I mean some celebrate and honor the Dead but I only know of one that actualy has a Lord - Of the Undead Day ! Whom I might add that if you dont follow you will die eternaly ( ANOTHER THREAT !) as this God rules by Fear disguised as LOVE ..And allows colorful yet stupid holidays chock full of outlandish LIES to Bait the kiddys!
5 You would follow one who whould KILL all of your enemys children ..who by most logic are innocent, might just grow up to be your friends and not the fathers who are causeing the bloodshead ?
6 then theres still the symbolic Canabalisim !! WTF?!

7 Ok then there's plain ol HISTORICAL Fact ! The Crusades What GODS ?,The KKK what GOD ? Hell man the Salem Witch trials ..PPL Burnned to death BLINDLY in the Name of WHAT GOD ! ETC. But you know it's got to say something IF YOUR GOD ALOWS all this death and distruction to happen in his name !

Your religion has this do not judge policy ,yet ppl like yourself march all around and tell anyone who isnt in your club that were going to HELL ! Some Religions dont even have A HELL !! some practices and religions dont ask ppl to follow insane rules blindly or bad things will happen to you !

Heck even your name in this realm BLIND FAITH ..why need to be blind when there's a whole world to SEE let alone trying to see and understand a GOD.

Try a Live and let live , To each their own ,HARM NONE ,etc.
Most of the ppl here live with OPEN EYES ,MIND ,and HEART ! So please learn and be merry ! and may your GOD not smite you for asking questions and having doubts ..

Instead of that whole thing I typed, I could've just said this too :-)

And also, Lord-IVD, what you wrote (in the quote below), that's exactly what I meant with my post, only my English isn't always the best to express myself, I do it too long and with too many sideways haha...maybe next time I best do it in Dutch and let him babelfish it ;-)

"MOST of the ppl that are answering your call are trying to show YOU things that you've been programed not to see ..you come in here trying to save the already saved ...WE'RE each walking the path we have choosen that fits our life and experiance to the best of our knowledge .."

Are you intentionally attempting to muddy the waters of this discussion, or am I simply confusing you? If Hell is a true and permanent state, than I would call that unfair and unloving. Again, to assign eternal punishment for a small period of misguidance is hardly just and definitely not loving.

That would have been a good passage to use in a previous debate with a self-declared Christian who once frequented this board. He stated that aside form belief in Christ as savior, nothing else needed to be done.

Therefore, a pious Buddhist who strove to help others and never did any harm would go to hell for being non-Christian, but a multiple murderer who found God prior to execution would be saved.

If nothing else needed to be done but to believe in Christ then that would mean the devil would be saved as he believes in Christ... something not quite right with that picture you think?

The Bibles states
James 2:17
faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

BL

Awww Thanks Cloudy ..

I know I can Rant once me fuse is lit lol !

The Bibles states
James 2:17
faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Hummmm...Ya know I used to have this saying along the lines of.. When you do a book report on ants do you reserch only one book?

So if your SOUL is at stake is it wise to only study only one book?

Whould not the ACTIONS of life demand living it ?
What good then is your faith if it's not tested ? So to then complicate things even more now you need tests or actions based on an intangeable factor to give the intangeable meaning ..( Dude if 666 gets ahold of you on this one LOL !!) With factors like that you justifi ppl like Manson and The Son of Sam ..both acted on their faith that they were doing the right thing ..So by that logic they both rocked compaired to the rest of us THEY ACTED out there Belifes and did as there concept of GOD demanded and honestly they only got a little blood on their hands compaired to all the blood in the book ...

And with that same line you justifi each of us ..in most cases a test of faith requires one to risk something great in life but bank that everything will be ok due to Devine guidence and that by having faith in or belifes ( sorry bout the extra bad spelling its like 5am here lol ) WHEN we act we will be ok !

THIS is something each one of US PAGANS do on a daily bassis by NOT FOLLOWING YER DAM BOOK ! What better action of FAITH than to risk ETERNAL DAMNATION by stepping out of the SHEEP PEN where it's safe , and tread WHERE OR FAITH leads us ! LOL Thanks Blind one ..

Romans 2:6
For He (God) will render to every man according to his works (justly, as his deeds deserve). AMP

Cool as most of us try our BEST to live a good life and help others ,WITH OUT YER DAM BOOK GOD , OUR WORKS are great indeed for we do them on the FAITH of SELF and act where others are like unto SHEEP and constantly attack our kind saying things like Baa Baa yer going to HELL baa baaa read the book baa baaa...LOL !!

P.S. SPOCK
"You have not answered his question.
What does God need with a starship? "

My God needs no Book .....

the only thing that's not quite right with that picture, there's no proof there's a devil or god...so to use him in your arguement?

unless you can prove to me there's a bibical hell at the core of the earth and a man's created god living in the clouds with a bunch of angels and perfect people...it's all conjecture.

and don't bring up the bible...those are pipedreams and visions...what proof is there that god inspired any of those passages, or just the word of men, that god did speak through them and told them how to control masses of people?

I believe the books are for us.

If you believe that God made all things, then how could the bible not be his word? or Jesus not his son?

btw is that Star Trek 5 or 6? If I wasn't a Catholic I'd definitely be a Trekkie.

man created the bible and the theory of his son, there's no archeological evidence that any of it existed before...the bible says so.

well, i guess they have found some scrolls and other proof that there was a definite dogma back than, but most of those support Gnosticism as a more genuine path of christ than anything...king james altered to suit his, prim and proper kill them all mentality.

maybe bush is the reincarnation of king james?

that would explain, a lot.

Note I didn't say belief in Christ, I said belief in Christ as savior, which I would say disqualifies the devil, wouldn't you?

And again, these aren't my words.

In fact, you didn't even address my issue...

Originally Posted by Qoji
"I believe the books are for us.

If you believe that God made all things, then how could the bible not be his word? or Jesus not his son?

Easy the bible may very well be his word ,but its his words HERE on THIS the plain of existance THAT HE GAVE to SATAN so it would naturaly be twisted into something toltaly useless to us ..humm could that be why its so big and worthless lol and if that wasent bad enough GOD is SATAN etc. your not ready for this kind of thinking Q ..Or if you realy think you are Heck Ill get into it for you, BUT mind you these thoughts are my path And im shure My concepts of Heaven,Hell,God,Satan etc. are different than yours ..But I'll share if you think it can help you ,or you just want another perspective cool I'll try to put it all in words .. but thats a rant for another time eh ..

As for JC I never said he wasent the son of GOD, but we all are the sons and daughters of GOD ,an Hey if JC was Gods physical avatar here SO WHAT ? But hey he said he'll be back ..So whats the Diffence between GOD and GOD ?

btw is that Star Trek 5 or 6? If I wasn't a Catholic I'd definitely be a Trekkie."

Star Trek 5 .. "If I wasn't a Catholic I'd definitely be a Trekkie." Why cant you be both?

Well heck i'll be back too lol gotta go !

Yet the man without faith is in the eye of the righteous christian doomed to hell.

Why should one suffer damnation for such a puerile thing.

We are either free or slaves. If god exists we are slaves. It is that simple.