That is the idea isn't it? Trying to coax people away from science so that they'll bring religion back to schools and create a generation of fanatics, close-minded to all but "The Word" of the Bible.

Who am I to hedge? I'm here trying to protect the truth. And the truth is, hiding religion behind the word "science" will never make it science. Ever. And since that is the idea, I will always be there to criticize it, and tell it like it is.

you're trying to protect victorian thinking. And no, the idea, as with all religions, is spiritual growth.

Nay, in Victorian times people were trying to find a way to allow science and religion to co-exist. Darwin himself wanted this.

I hold that religion and science are in conflict so much that they cannot possibly ever co-exist.

What kind of spiritual growth can come from a religion that preaches of both a Divine Plan and Free Will? Religion creates chaos, confusion, and illogical thought. I don't see this as growth of any kind.

See my discussion with Soulfull in the Philosophy board for my views on Free Will. I spit on your notions of human well-being. Honestly, it really makes me sick how the Science camp thinks it has the answer to everything.

At least you didn't refer me to some passage in the Bible.

But seriously, someone must have seriously poisoned your ideas to what science is. Probably during a sermon.

Science never claims to have "the answer to everything." Nope, science is ever changing in accordance to new findings, theories, and research. One could even say that science is evolving. So it would be the "Science camp" that has room for growth, while the religious will only say, "No, this is how it is."

But if its "spit" that you offer from your own "spiritual growth", I can only say good luck to you. :pill:

it is science that has poisoned my views of the world.

Nice rebuttal.

But seriously, do you care to elaborate? How has science "poisoned" your views of the world?

was there something to rebut?

Scientific thought is a trap. I get sucked into patterns of listlessness, difering to authority, to someone else, an expert, someone with a degree who studied the field. Instead of feeling, I feel compelled to just chill out, think things over and walk away, order a pizza, watch tv, avoid living, avoid feeling. Logical thought processes are good, but I look around and I see everyone using logic as their primary form of thinking, they use logic as an excuse to not do anything.

Science is nothing compared to logic! ALL HAIL LOGIC!

I disagree that everyone uses logical thought. I wish it were so, but I look around and see people who try to use logical thought, but then turn around and say that they "felt" like doing something. They ignore science, focusing on "feeling" instead.

Though this is taught as good thing in many religions and much of eastern philosophy, I see it as decay of civilization. People acting on impulse creates obesity, crime, and counterproductivity.

And you say you find yourself defering to authority? That's more of a religious thing. Moreso Christianity, which preaches that all governments are sanctioned by God.

would that be so bad?


Not anywhere in the Bible, not in Catholicism, not preached by any other Christian groups around today. Saying that historical Christianity preaches the same things as modern Christianity is a totally fallacious argument.

Roman 13:1

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Romans 13:2

Whosoever resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

Romans 13:3

For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Romans 13:4

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil

Romans 13:5

Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

1 Peter 2:13

Submit yourself to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1 Peter 2:14

Or unto GOVERNORS, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

Not anywhere in the Bible...

"There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed. (H.S.E.P.p219/20.)"-Bertrand Russell

This happens to be one of my favorite quotes my one of my favorite philosophers.
What is to be said of humankind’s endearment of religion? First of all religion serves the need of understanding and meaning. A devote of a certain religion will have a very static view of the world, one who subscribes to say christiananity will hold the same views held by its founders of 2000 years ago with very little change concerning the physical nature of things. This is contrary to science, which is very dynamic and accepting. Not only can religion and science have difficulty coexisting but also democracy and religion seem to be very contrary at their core whereas science (the pursuit of truth) and democracy go hand in hand. Science espouses open-mindedness with healthy skeptical while religion is very dogmatic and closed-minded. Science seeks to uncover the unfound truths while many religions claim to already know all the answers. Any virtue of thought central to religion is a threat to free thinkers and an open democratic society

Wow

I'm glad you think so.

It's all just so very very confusing. And nobody truly helps that out, they just throw in their opinion, and further cluster. I'm just really confused, and I see no help.

what do you need help with?

evrything, just once in my life would i like some straight answer about religion, and i was truly hoping that i could but the longer i live the more clustered shit gets, and it's just fucking annoying.

Well, ask away.