well you could definitly shoot lightening bolts from your arse. but seriosly, there aren't any

well you could definitly shoot lightening bolts from your arse. but seriously there are no limits

What justify? Christianity teaches that sin is an inherent part of the human condition. It doesn't need to be justified; thus the concept of repentance and forgiveness.


The Catholic Church is certainly a deviation in many ways from the original tenets, although it's hardly the diabolical tool for oppression many try to portray it as (the Spanish Inquisition, which is what most people think of when they say "The Inquisition", for instance, was not run by the Church, and many of the Jews who fled and were banished from Spain during these years found refuge in Rome, for instance).

How many of those were founded by one of actual people who knew Jesus? The Church in ROME was put in Rome for a reason by Peter.

When white deviates from being white, it is no longer white. It may still look white, and it may still call itself white, and 99% of observers may genuiniely, wholeheartedly believe it is white. But they are still wrong, no matter how good intentioned their flawed perception may be.

The Roman Catholic religion is, by even the most generous of standards, at the very least a deviation from Christianity. It certainly ain't Christianity.

In the 11th and 12th centuries, the very rare executrions of "heretics" were the work of either the secular (civil) authorities or lynch mobs. But in 1184, at the Synod of Verona, Pope Lucius III decreed that heretics would be excommunicated and if they then failed to recant they would be passed to the secular power for punishment. In 1215 the Lateran Council decreed execution as the punishment for obdurate heretics. In 1215 Pope Gregory IX established legislation covering the whole Holy Roman Empire, establishing the death penalty for heretics. The papal Inquisition was officially established in 1231, and Conrad of Marburg became its first official inquisitor.

He was soon joined by Conrad Torso of the (Roman Catholic) Dominican order. These inquisitors, backed by the power of the Vatican, could have the magistrates burn anyone they fingered as a heretic. The Dominican and (Romabn Catholic) Franciscans happily chipped in and assisted with the burnings. Along with his one-eyed, one-armed sidekick Johannes, Torso claimed he could detect heretics just by their appearance. A follower of the "Let G-d sort em out" school of justice, Torso is reliably quoted as saying, "We would gladly burn a hundred, if just one among them were guilty."

In 1233 Gregory IX issued the bull we know as Vox in Rama which gave official backing to the work of Torso as being G-d's orders. Further bulls from John XXII reiterated this.

I could go on. The Inquisition - Spanish, French, German, wherever - was a Roman Catholic creation, and was overseen and controlled by the Vatican and the Popes. Squirming, revisionist, Roman Catholic apologists cannot undo the hundreds of years of meticulous documentation that, just like the Nazis centuries later, they kept for posperity....

Midway through Luke's account in Acts it is clear that the man known as Ya 'aqov (James the Just, the brother of Yeshua/Jesus), and not Peter, is leader of the church in Jerusalem - a fact that is often overlooked by readers of the Bible. When Yeshua founded the church ("on this rock I will build my church") he wasn't referring to Peter/Kefa - he was referring to Himself: He was the Rock, the Spirit-sent Rock, the Messiah (1 Corinthians 10:4). the bible makes it very clear that Kefa defers to Ya 'aqov's' authority.

(With a nod to my earlier post about the corruption of Christianity) Ya'aqov believed that anyone who became a Christian must subscribe to the Jewish customs. This would change as the Roman pagans subsumed christianity and created their religion. Given Kefa's prominence in Acts it surprises me that more people don't question why he completely disappears from the narrative half way through.

There is NO biblical narrative about Kefa founding the Church in Rome, it never happened, it is just a generally accepted story, originally started by Emperor Constantine. And let's face it, he only gave the Christians his support because he followed the maxim "My enemy's enemy is my friend."

The church in Rome wasn't put there by "Peter" and the people who did put it there built it upon a foundation of lies and half-truths.

Much as they proceeded to carry on for the next 17 centuries, in fact.

Well, according to my beliefs, we are limited in this world only by the veil that separates us from the other spheres of existence. When we transcend it, we can achieve all that is possible, either in the physical or metaphysical sense.

The church in Alexandria, base for the Coptic Christians, was founded by Mark. The others mentioned were obviously founded by people who converted listening to the gospel as spread by the eleven original disiciples remaining, and Paul.

Mark was chosen by Jesus to continue the church?

All the disciples were sent out to spread the word. Where exactly in the Bible does Jesus give Peter instruction to be the first Pope?

not anymore...

at least about this topic, it seems rather lengthy and quite interesting learning aspects of christianity that aren't mentioned in the bibe or at church, it has quite a history.

so, are all the denominations we have today, a result of how different people interpreted the bible and founded their own church to expound on them?

i've noticed some are rather strict in their prayer and worship precedure, where as other churches have a more lenient approach of pray and worship how you feel most comfortable expressing that?

my gosh, i read a book on all the denominations and it was one of the thickest books on the shelf.

Wow, that's an amazingly bad metaphor to describe a human spiritual movement. Isn't that the argument each new generation of racist, secularists in any culture uses to justify why in anyway deviating from the norm of the last generation makes you an untrue whatever?

Really? They don't consider Christ their spiritual leader and the architect of their faith?


Thanks for cutting out the relevant bits of my quote. I said that the Spanish Inquisition was not run by the Church.


You could go on, but you would continue being wrong or irrelevant. I didn't claim the Catholic Church was perfect. I have no need or desire to. I'm not and never have been Catholic. I only become irritated because it's clearly had more than it's fair share of blame heaped upon it, and received very little credit for where it did help humanity.

No.



Is that what defines "Christianity"? The Students of the Seven Seals believed those two things, but they weren't Christians either, particularly as they believed that a new messiah had now come, who had to be steeped in sin and debauchery, as imperfect man couldn't relate to a sinless Christ.

Their new messiah was a paedophile named David Koresh.

It isn't which aspects of the Bible that you use as doctrine which determines a church as "Christian" or not - its which aspects of the Bible you ignore or which bits of doctrine you add. And the Roman Catholic Church puts tradition before scripture, ignores huge chunks of the Bible, and made up lots of new stuff to fit their pagan origins.

In October 1483 the pope issued a papal bull naming Tomas de Torquemada the Inquisitor General of Aragon, Catalonia and Valencia - the head of the Spanish Inquisition, answerable to the pontiff. Pretty much to a man, the inquisitors themselves were either priests or members of monastic orders. I think that makes it a church-run organisation, don't you?


Ah. I see. "Wrong" and "irrelevant" being defined as "Anything I don't agree with, regardless of evidence to the contrary". A little like the Roman Catholic church and Galileo, really.


Sure, no worries. I often say nice things about the present Bush administration, too.

Doesn't mean I'm right, though.

Key word there being "interperet." Had Peter also interpreted it that way, he would have taken a closer hand in what the other disciples were doing with their time...