No hope = No fear!!!

Good Peter Steele quote.

I heard that argument a slightly different way. Christians typically believe in these four conditions: God is all good, God is all powerful, God is all knowing, and evil does indeed exist. If god is all good he has the desire to see Evil Eradicated. There is no "evil for the sake of good" evil is evil. If god is all powerful he has the power to destroy evil... thats what all-powerful means. If god is all knowing, he KNOWS that evil exists, and has the knowledge to wipe it out. Yet... Evil exists. So one of four things must be true: God is not all good, God is not all powerful, God is not all knowing, or evil does not exist.

My bet is that God is not all good. Still, the bible says he is. You call the bible on a point like that, and that discredits the whole thing. The christian faith is full of hypocricies and contradictions. If you ask me its all a load of bullshit. Still if it makes a person happy, and if they dont spend their time trying to convert me, I won't give them a problem about it.

I didn't think that anyone would catch that quote. Thank you.

Did we just make up a god so that we have some one to rely on?

The only god is each and every one of us personified...... our conscious mind is the GOD... there is noother.... I kinda wish there was than we could blame all this crap on someone else....

How are we all God's? If this is true, than the "traditional" beliefs of the character of God goes out the window, for none have such character. What then becomes the character that thes God's take on?

We exist... the ideal of a God or Gods was created from our imagination... we created the idea of God so therefore we are Gods... we create and expound upon those creations every day.... even the act of destruction proves that we are Gods..... though in death our flesh is inactive and rots the energy that activated that flesh does not dissolve.... energy does not cease to be... quantum physics has proven that

So then all we really are is a bunch of energy? Physics says that energy is the ability to do work. We cannot simply be energy. Energy is a tool used by something else. Therefore, i can only assume that your saying that our body is all that is there and that once we die, "God" dies with us. If we are unable to sustain ourselves, then how can we be God?

Energy is not a tool.... it is the fundemental groundwork for everything in the entire universe.... without energy all would be kaput.... the energy that motivates our flesh is not a tool either rather the flesh is the tool for the energy..... look.... a hammer is a tool.. it lies dormant until a burst of energy causes it to move... most often to pound a nail in..... another example..... look at a water fall... there is tons of energy within that falling water.. now say we dam that water fall up and create hydroelectricity... the energy from that falling water is still there... we have merely diverted some of it toward our own use.... when we die.that damn of flesh is gone but the energy remains... in essence human energy is eternal... therefore we are immortal... energy wise... immortality is the province of divinity is it not.... we are gods..

Hey everybody.

Damn it, Skorpion and all you other jesus loving fools, give us an argument, give us a reason to believe in your silly hell. Food for thought-If you can be completely happy in heaven knowing that good people who simply did nto believe are burning, then you are not that good. It's ironic how in order to get to heaven you need to be a kind of sadistic person. You can't prove your god exists, but even if he did, why would a good person worship such a beast?(greed and fear as motivation to go to heaven and motivation to stay out of hell, most likely...but then if those are your motivations you are not a good person.) The true humanitarian cares about all peoples pain, not just the "good" peoples pain.

Well last heathen let me just say this. Without good there is no evil. Wtihout evil there is no good. So basicly without heaven(god) then there is no hell (devil) and visa versa.

Luckily there is no such thing as good and evil. We just like to think there is, and there is no heaven or hell either. Like some other people, you dodge the accusations. Fantastic, you are believe in absolutes, but how is the truly good hearted person happy in heaven while people burn in hell? Maybe I'm evil, but I wouldn't be happy in heaven knowing that. My evil heart is too big.

There is such things as good and evil you are just too blind to see it last heathen

There is no darkness, only varying shades of light. There is no black, only varying shades of color. What heathen says makes alot of sense. A persons morality is determined by his upbringing, and by the society in which he lives. There is no set standard for "good" and "bad". If a kid grows up in a crack house, 9 times out of ten hes gonna be a crackhead.

Think about yourself for a second. How much of what you believe is picked up from books you have read? From music? From movies? From poetry? From other people you have met? If you dissect yourself you will find that this high and mighty self-view you have is no more than a collection of a thousand other people's ideas.

Vampire69, all you are doing is saying "you're wrong" and not giving anything to back up your claim. It makes you look like a closed minded fool. And I thought thats what everyone was on this board to escape.

Never heard of moral reletavism, huh? Saying good and evil exists, you're just blind sounds exaclty like the god exists, you're just blind attack. I should clear this up- There is no cosmic sense of good and evil, it is completely relative to ones society or even the individual. I take good to mean helpful to life and evil to mean harmful. By accepting those terms however, I am still not saying that good and evil really exist. They are just adjectives, like beauty and ugliness. Of course you don't say "Beauty and ugliness exist, you're just too blind to see it," because (hopefully) you understand that there is no universal, or absolute beauty and ugliness. If I may change a cliche in order to help you to understand- Good is in the eye of the beholder.

i love theology i wish i had the patience to read all the post on this thread but oh well. id like to point out on the energy issue that energy is the core of everything in existence. there is energy in rocks in humans in wind in air its everywhere. when we die the energy in our bodys does not cease to exist, it eventually will recylcle itself but that doesnt mean we are the energy. energy doesnt have a brain it doesnt have concsious thought. its matter like everything else in the world. so the idea that we are immortal is bunk. energy is in us, but its not who we are. we have a brain that uses energy to make our thoughts, ideas and everything that we are. when we die our brains stop working and this energy is dormant in the dirt we become. hence scientifaccly speaking we cease to be and the energy we used to exist remains. so energy is everywhere but it is a tool. the idea that our energy is our concious is just as unprovable as god. as is all these other theories ive seen up here. we'll never know anything of the world that is not physical. wether it exist or not, everyone should deal with that.
id like to say that logic is always the way to confront the argument. my father is a pastor. i am athiest. but only because i cant prove god exist, but alas i can not prove his non-existence as well. this is something everyone should understand. wether they choose to believe or not to. one thing id like to say on logic is that us humans probably have very little, so this argument will exist till the end of time
can god create a boulder he cant lift? was such a good question. id like to point out that if (according to the bible) he is omnipotent than he can but then he wouldnt be able to lift it thus proving he's not omnipotent. so then with this question of logic we prove that the theories on god( not god himself) are incorrect. but there are things that as humans we can never understand. heathen was saying that you cant be two things at once but that is because we are assuming the very little(and i stress little) laws that govern are existence govern everthing,and that is absurd. can a piece of matter be in two places at once? logic says this is impossible but science has proven that it can. not only that but physics has discovered things that have two completely different forms of existence but are still the same thing. this is quantum physics by the way. anyways my point is that the heathens questions do not disprove the existence of a diety. there are particles that exist in two different areas but are the same particles. there are particles that exist one way while existing in a completely different way at the same time. does that sound logical to you? it doesnt but it's reality. and we are oblivious to the laws that govern are reality, it may be xenocentric to say that but it is true. of all the things that exist in our physical world and of the laws that govern them we know nothing of. and it would take millenia to even understand them superficially. so unfortunately we cant ask questions like the heathen is asking sadly cuz we cant' answer them, thus why cant there be a boulder to heavy for god to lift but at the same time liftable by god? i know this sounds incomprehesible but thats just cus humans are ignorant.and that is why we will never prove god doesnt exist, as far as being atheist goes there's alot of things a person can do to prove that there are other things besides what we know that govern our lives. play with a board get six unsharpened pencils and ask them questions, and then tell me that there isnt something supernatural that exist. i believe there is but of its nature or its purpose i know nothing of.

[Edited by blueboy on 10-12-2000 at 11:57 AM]

i just wanted to expand on the heathens evil and good statement cuz i see the same clause all the time "without evil there is no good" so then evil has a purpose. evil is something defined by society. we think it evil to kill someone because that is what we've been taught to do. but if you were taught that killing was good then would there be an
imbedded impulse in you to object to this? you can argue both ways. ancient mayan societys use to do ritual murder and sacrifice and everyone in this society viewed it as sacred and good. if evil was universal then this society wouldnt exist. parents would offer there children to be killed because they thought it was good. there was this one festival were people would vote to give a mask to a citizen and he could pretend to be a god for a while and then they would burn him alive. this sounds evil to us but these people were actually hoping to be chosen because it was what they considered good. evil and good as we understand them do not exist. the reason i say you can argue both ways though is because the values and morals that were born from the hebrew religion are values that have governed most of societys through out history. and in trying to answer the question on a universal evil ask yourself; if you where taught to look at murder as good, would you look at murder as good or would there be something in you saying this was wrong, even though no one told you it was?

[Edited by blueboy on 10-12-2000 at 12:18 PM]

First of all, you have yet to prove God doesn't exist. All you have said is that you don't like the idea of God. How can we be happy in heaven when people are in Hell? Simply because we won't think about them. Why? It may sound aweful, but you have to realize that those in Hell chose not to respect God: they spent their lives ignoring Him and dissing Him. So why ought He purpetuate their memory? They don't deserve to be remembered.

As to why "good" people go to Hell, it is essential to realize that no one is good. Matthew 19:17 says that there is only one who is good: God. God is perfect. Our sin has blemished us and takes those things which we do that seem "good" and blemish them as well. Even when people do things which are "good" and even for the right reasons, it is because of the fact we are made in God's image-kind of a moment of being like Him. But unbelievers are uncapable of doing the right thing consistently. No matter how hard they try, they can't do it. The unbeliever can; this doesn't mean it will happen, however. At any rate, it is the sin of the person that sends them to Hell, being as they have not chosen to accept the atoning sacrafice of Jesus Christ.

Atheists claim god is UNproven, not disproven. And you are incorrect, I have stated some arguments actually trying to disprove god. The bits of logic that blueboy talks about. Just as godzilla is unproven, so is god. The only reason you don't believe in godzilla is because no ones has scraed you into it. Your heaven sounds terrible to me; it seems like when describing the best place in existence you wouldn't have to use the disclaimer "this sounds aweful". The unbeliever is just as human as the believer and can do whatever the beleiver can do, and vice versa.
Blueboy...it doesn't seem logical that something can be in two places at once, but if science can prove it, I will accept it. But this does not mean we should throw logic away. It is the foundation of science. What we must do is value both logic and science, and if something is PROVEN to contradict something that seems logical, than accept it. God has not been proven in the least. When quantum physics, or any other field of science can prove god exists, then I will accept it.