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Serious Discussion Discuss A simple Question in the Discussions forums; But perhaps not a so simple answer. The question is: Do plants have spirits/souls, and if so, do they communicate in their own way? To some this would seem ...

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A simple Question - 11-14-04

But perhaps not a so simple answer. The question is: Do plants have spirits/souls, and if so, do they communicate in their own way? To some this would seem to be an utterly ludicris question, but I assure you I am very serious. I personally believe that they do. I have a number of house plants, and within the past week, they have shown very large growth spurts, happening after I had done a few minor things to them. I feel that it is just their way of showing appreciation and thanks for what I have do.


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11-14-04

Well by my system YES !!

MIND- BODY- SPIRIT
GOD-JESUS- HOLY GHOST
REALITY- MATTER - ENERGY = ALL ARE ONE


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11-19-04

I certainly think they do. But that is my own opinion from my "system", persay. I study the shamanic, partially.

Yes, plants do communicate, in a way that's very different from humans. As far as my own experience goes, plants communicate through energy (via-vast visual display) and sound. I have actually never experienced the "sound-communication that plants provide", otherwise I would have a sacred song to sing, but I have seen their visual displays.

I'll tell you a story. One day I wasn't feeling very good. My day had been absolute shit and I was about ready to jump off of a cliff. I looked up at a tree and started at it for a long time. First I started to see rays of light all around me, which was a normal "optical illusion" as scientists would call it. Then I began to see little glowing insects everywhere, all around me. I mean, they were everywhere. Then I looked up at the tree and above the top of the canopy, of the tree, I could see energetic arrows pointing towards it. They changed color from red, to blue, to orangish yellow as I looked longer. The colors fluctuated. I was NOT in an ecstatic state either. This was pure "third-eye seeing", I suppose.

the website deoxy.org has a lot of great information about shamanism and spirits of animals and plants.

The following link is about visible language, but it doesn't relate to plant communication.
http://deoxy.org/t_langvr.htm

There's much more to be said, but for now, I cannot think of it.


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11-25-04

. . . goes both ways the communication. They do have an energy about them, as do all living things, and for myself I've found that plants of certain types grow very very, almost too well, when I'm around. From experiance, as far as I know, they have a form of spirit, but not as we would recognize it.


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11-25-04

I never really thought about it until I went to see Robin Hood's Major Oak, this huge ancient tree, over 1000 years old.
Unlike many other ancient trees this one has seriously gone past it's lifespan. It want's to die, I honestly felt that. It's sadness seemed to fill the air all arund it.
Partially, I think it had to do with the visuals, the metal poles propping it up, the patches all over it, but still, it seemed like an old man on life support who was desperate to die.
One unhappy tree.
It is proven that nature soothes our souls and images can reduce stress, but this was just horrible.



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11-25-04

I used to live near there. I saw it. It was vandalized pretty bad when I last saw it. They must have sorted it out. It was horrible. An old tree but man it needs to die.



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11-25-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dark_Lord
But perhaps not a so simple answer. The question is: Do plants have spirits/souls, and if so, do they communicate in their own way? To some this would seem to be an utterly ludicris question, but I assure you I am very serious. I personally believe that they do. I have a number of house plants, and within the past week, they have shown very large growth spurts, happening after I had done a few minor things to them. I feel that it is just their way of showing appreciation and thanks for what I have do.
this is not a ludicris question.....and in fact, is more philosophical than spiritual....

philosophers have been concerning themselves with this idea since before socrates....albeit, Aristotle and later medieval philosophy really expanded on the idea....

yes, indeed there is a spirit.....although, in the philosophical community we prefer the term "essence"........everything has an essence.......a pen has an essence......hold a pen in your hand, and you can see that THAT IS THAT PEN.....there may be a pen just like it, but itz not THAT PEN.......

but, even further than that.....to avoid the whole "energy" and what not science likes to use.....

plants are very much like an organ which have a purpose, or have sumtin' else they do.....for example, flowers smell good.....now smell isn't physical....it may come from sumtin' physical, but smell itself isn't coherently a physical object......it isn't rightly metaphysical either.....but think of smell from a flower such as "sight" of the eyes.....the eye is the organ, but the sight is that which actually sees......for blind people still have eyes

the point is, that being that this is the function of the organ would dictate to theologians (religious philosophers) that it has a soul.....although, itz soul is nowhere near the type of soul a human being is said to possess.....

thus, philosophers say it has an essence, much like a pen, but where a pen merely exhibits a physical essence, a plant very well could have a metaphysical essence to it....in the sense that it is living......and as St. Aquinas (infamous theologian) once said....."to be considered living, you need a soul...otherwise, how could we differentiate between a man and a rock?"


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11-25-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dark_Lord
The question is: Do plants have spirits/souls, and if so, do they communicate in their own way?
None of these responses 'prove' anything. Everybody thinks whatever they think is the most romantic; otherwise, we'd be bored senseless. However, every explanation involves other things that haven't been validated. Lots of people believe that humans don't have souls, for instance. They could be full of crap, but until we get an actual answer, they're no less full of crap than anyone else.

I think it's arrogant to say you know the answer to this. To discuss it until several answers are purported is great, but saying you've "seen it" is a little over the top, since all you've seen is your interpretation of something that anyone should be able to see.
  
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11-25-04

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixxx(sic)six
this is not a ludicris question.....and in fact, is more philosophical than spiritual....
Here we go! *Hypes up*

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixxx(sic)six
philosophers have been concerning themselves with this idea since before socrates....albeit, Aristotle and later medieval philosophy really expanded on the idea....
*Rolls eyes.* Indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixxx(sic)six
yes, indeed there is a spirit.....although, in the philosophical community we prefer the term "essence"........everything has an essence.......a pen has an essence......hold a pen in your hand, and you can see that THAT IS THAT PEN.....there may be a pen just like it, but itz not THAT PEN.......
I just don't get this at all.... How can you say a pen has an essence? It doesn't have a soul. Or what is believed to be a soul. Put it this way. I have a pen. Im looking at it now and yeah its the pen I picked up about two minutes ago but it is potential energy, I can make it move, once I do its kinetic energy. A pen is not an essence... Its a pen. A piece of plastic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixxx(sic)six
but, even further than that.....to avoid the whole "energy" and what not science likes to use.....
Everything is energy... You, me, a plant. How can you avoid it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixxx(sic)six
plants are very much like an organ which have a purpose, or have sumtin' else they do.....for example, flowers smell good.....now smell isn't physical....it may come from sumtin' physical, but smell itself isn't coherently a physical object......it isn't rightly metaphysical either.....but think of smell from a flower such as "sight" of the eyes.....the eye is the organ, but the sight is that which actually sees......for blind people still have eyes
Yeah but then, my kidneys must have a soul too then because thats an organ... That has a purpose... Oh my bladder too... Oh and my intestines... This is just weird. Oh yeah... Plants take in carbon dioxide and let out oxygen. Meh. Just because something is not tangable doesn't mean theres no empirical evidence surrounding its existence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixxx(sic)six
the point is, that being that this is the function of the organ would dictate to theologians (religious philosophers) that it has a soul.....although, itz soul is nowhere near the type of soul a human being is said to possess.....
Intresting... So nothing is our equal? Just because we rule and destroy our planet? FOr all you know, aliens are saying the same thing about us. heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixxx(sic)six
thus, philosophers say it has an essence, much like a pen, but where a pen merely exhibits a physical essence, a plant very well could have a metaphysical essence to it....in the sense that it is living......and as St. Aquinas (infamous theologian) once said....."to be considered living, you need a soul...otherwise, how could we differentiate between a man and a rock?"
The same why you differentiated between a pen, a plant and a human.... heh



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11-25-04

Quote:
I just don't get this at all.... How can you say a pen has an essence? It doesn't have a soul. Or what is believed to be a soul. Put it this way. I have a pen. Im looking at it now and yeah its the pen I picked up about two minutes ago but it is potential energy, I can make it move, once I do its kinetic energy. A pen is not an essence... Its a pen. A piece of plastic.
do not confuse "essence" with "soul".......or the term "metaphysical" for that matter.....western thought has basically molded the term essence from eastern worldviews as to being synonymous with soul.....i'm sure the dictionary even defines it as such....but, philosophy is in a whole different ball game m'dear....the term essence doesn't necessairly negate "soul".....a pen very much has an essence.....that pen you held up, that piece of plastic and such......ok, there's four stages that took to make the pen become a pen....stage 1: the idea; stage 2: the material; stage 3: the formation; stage 4: the resulting product.....now at what point time is the pen a pen? obviously at stage four....so if take that it goes from being plastic, to being molded into shape, to finally becoming a pen......the resulting product is different than it was in stage 3, as it was in stage 2, and stage 1.....all this would be the overall change of the pen's essence.....

the overall idea is that....IT IS IT....THAT VERY blue bic pen you got is not the same as THAT blue bic pen which came in the same package....they're both pens, but not the same pen....hence, they each are their own, hence they each have an essence of being a pen, but also have an individual essence....itz, complicated, but itz how philosophy defines essence....

but essence doesn't mean soul......but then there's the whole term "metaphysical" which just, yeah....i ain't even going there

Quote:
Everything is energy... You, me, a plant. How can you avoid it?
i simply meant i wasn't going to use that argument....i wasn't going to use science, i was going to use philosophy

Quote:
Yeah but then, my kidneys must have a soul too then because thats an organ... That has a purpose... Oh my bladder too... Oh and my intestines... This is just weird. Oh yeah... Plants take in carbon dioxide and let out oxygen. Meh. Just because something is not tangable doesn't mean theres no empirical evidence surrounding its existence.
you're right....however, i should't have said soul and only said "metaphysical-essence" (which, is like the soul).....this concept of sight being the metaphysical aspect of the physical eye is something Aristotle first thought of, but St. Aquainas truly expanded on.....Aquinas' mission in life was identifying the soul and saying what it was.....this is his idea, not mine.....i don't really care for his philosophy, but was just trying to state that itz his philosophy which theologians would adhere to and admit how a plant has a soul.....Aquinas said if itz living, it has a soul......for example, the eye....if the eye is dead, itz blind....if they is living, it sees.....hence, sight is the soul of the eye......sight is needed to make it live.......thus, a plants function is itz soul (which is taking in carbon dioxide and releasing oxygen...and whatever else they can do)

Quote:
Intresting... So nothing is our equal? Just because we rule and destroy our planet? FOr all you know, aliens are saying the same thing about us. heh
again, this isn't my philosophy.....this is old medieval philosophy, yet it still holds some truth today......but, if you need more proof......scientists (specifically psychologist) and philosophers have come to agree that the only species which can be said to be "equal to humans" are dolphins and certain species of orangutans as well as elephants....why? all because of sentience.....scientists have finally discovered as philosophers have always concerned themselves with "cogito ergo sum" that indeed, self-awareness is a defining factor in how "great" a creature is.....for years, humans thought we were the only ones who were self-aware.....but dolphins, certain orangutans, and elephants all exhibit self-awareness.....believe it or not, your dog isn't self-aware.....


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11-26-04

Sixxx--have you read any eastern philosophy on the essence of things? Easterners have done a brilliant job at chiselling away at the seeming complexity of the idea.
  
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11-27-04

not really, just the Tao....i'm more of the "continental philosopher" (nietzsche, hiedegger, satre, hume, camus, etc...)


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