your point?

they're version of satanism is less valid than yours?

my perosnal opinion...

satanism has gone down the same path as witchcraft, too many people with their own ideas clinging to some dramatic title that came about because some guy got an idea in his head and started plying the theory of self worship, and marketing it under a controversial title.

anton levey's religion, is no different than gerald gardner's wicca, utilizing earlier forms of mythological european witcheries and giving them structure and twisting it to their ideal religion, offering dramatic stories of "secret traditions" selling it and gaining followers, diluting witchcraft with wiccan associations.

satanism is no longer the leveyan ideal, despite what some may feel about it, and i don't think levey was able to copyright satanism.

a rare few proponents of that ideal represent it nobly, but satanism in general is no longer what levey originally marketed, like everything else today, it has it's own definition subject to personal practices, beliefs and experience.

what makes levey's satanism more valid than those who worship satan as an actual god, finding him through higher explorations of their id, embracing their animal natures and drawing power from those aspects, crediting satan for being a sentient form of benelovence and bearer of wisdom having the courage to stand up to a controlling father figure and giving him the finger, refusing to become something less than "clever monkeys" that god decided to create one day...rather than living life based on a book that sells well at borders, telling others what is and is not "true" satanism?

wow?!?!

at this point, it sort of sounds like christians telling other people how to worship and believe, based on a book that can be purchased at borders, based on one man's way of living life.

"satan" was worshipped centuries before levey's parents were even a glimmer...look at any of the horned gods worshipped through history and the inquisitions can attest to that, as a brutal fact.

I never said "my" version of Satanism was more valid than any other.

My point? I was answering some questions... I wasn't trying to make a point.


shadow, I think LaVey died in 96 or 97

My bad...I did a little digging. I think the reference was to 1975, when the Satanic Church dropped off the radar and LaVey was rumored to have died. Anywho, the Temple of Set has their own website, so I basically answered my own question.

Yeah, he refused interviews and what not for years, so apparently everyone assumed he died. Is the Tample of Set based around Egypt or anything? I was wondering because they chose the Egyptian devil's name, very curious.

lol. There were many Egyptian Gods who were more Evil than Set, he just happens to be the most well known.

How can you be "against the bible when it comes to satan"? Thats like being against Mark Twain when it comes to Huckelberry Finn.

"No, I don't believe he really floated down the mississippi river, i believe that he opened a bakery in El Paso Texas."

Fucking ridiculous.

it depends on how one views the bible...is it necessary for a person who chooses to worship god, to be a christian?

i disagree with the bible, there are some good words of wisdom, but anyone who lives life...learns wisdom, and the path to personal peace is not exclusive to christianity, why should devils?


my thought;

it's choosing to defy god, whatever he may be perceived, why should i place any credence in a book that, could be nothing more than a two thousand year old "huckleberry finn". there's a lot of authors to choose from, but that's coming from a more diabolistic ideal, rather than anything, structured.

i suppose it ultimately comes down to who or what satan is, and like any god, that is usually based on personal interpretation, even if one reads the book...they create their own pictures.

So the real issue is Jehovah should have made the bible a picture book? Maybe thats what it is, a religous primer for dunces... Who here would know?

if he wrote it for his children, then yes...what child enjoys reading a book with no pictures?

any parent should understand that.

but what proof is there he wrote it, and not some grumpy ol' men?

I disagree with the bible too, I think its silly. But a christian who doesnt agree with the bible isn't really a christian.

Actually some now dead men did write it whether they were old or grumpy I don't know, they were supposed to have had it dictated to them.
The original and only one that was copyright protected by Jehovah is apperently buried inside the Arc of Covenant, so by now it could have been edited by many sexually repressed young and old men. Once more Who would know?

I'm not sure why, myself. They're actually based in California and their founder used to be a Church of Satan member. I found a Virginia university site that has some pretty solid information on them, here:

http://religiousmovements.lib.virgin...m/tempset.html

that's why there's an old testament(fire and brimstone)and the new testament, a softer, more peaceful way.

i think the gnostics are the ones who've figured it out though, they seem to me, to believe more ideally as jesus christ is said to have been...what makes a person christian?

To be a Christian you just have to follow the teachings of Christ. To believe that god loves you but will torture you for all eternity for the slightest indiscretion.

there is no such thing as fallen angels

Well, there's the voice of ultimate authority putting an end to this question. I suppose I'll have to lock down the thread now...nothing more to be said.

you tell me where in the bible it says that.
i bet you dont know..

Well there are two problems here, one I haven't read the bible since I was 12, and 2 the bible doesn't read in a linear fashion. There is a lot of cross referancing involved, doubling back then forward then back again.
But I googled it. So here are some passages.

http://www.antelope-ebooks.com/RELIGIOUS/angels01.html

Ezek. 28:15 tells us that Lucifer was perfect in his ways from the day that he was created, until iniquity was found in him.

Isa. 14:12-14 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest side of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High."

LUCIFER - THE COVERING CHERUB

Consider what God says in Ezek. 28:12-15. He is here talking about Lucifer in earlier times, before sin was found in him."You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in the Garden of Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones."
What does God mean, the anointed cherub who covers? In Exodus 25 God described His throne to Moses, who was to make a physical representation of it. Verses 18-20 "And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two end of it on one piece with the mercy seat. And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat."
Notice that the wings of the cherubims were to cover the mercy seat. Lucifer, apparently, had, at one time, the awesome privilege and responsibility of being established, or placed, by his Creator at the very throne of God!

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/lucifer.html

Who was Lucifer?
Lucifer was the Anointed Cherub. Anointed means to be set apart for Gods Divine purpose. It also means "bestowal of Gods divine favor", and "appointment to a special place or function." God had given Satan a certain amount of power and authority. But he perverted that power. Lucifer wanted to exalt himself above God... rather than "just" being the Angel of God.



Would it help to know it is also far and away hotter in heaven than in hell?

good enough for me