Originally Posted by Manifesto

listen here, buddy... just because some priest touched your no-no place and you have soft spot for old father o'killajew doesnt mean you get to talk shit. your "proof" is propaganda just like mine is, and history is built on it... the catholics are powerfull and can make their own history based on lies and stories of purity but the truth is they are just as evil and malevolent as any other religion. there are many people who say that the catholic church persecuted them... prove that its a lie, give me 100% solid proof that it is untrue and I might listen to your right wing bullshit for a minute or two... untill then shut the fuck up.

Originally Posted by Iron's Rite

No, sorry but what pisses everyone off isn't that Billy is saying that Islam is violent. It's that he advocates the most extreme and ridiculous measures as a solution . . . That and he excoriates us all while he's at it. Any sane person has seen where that leads. We've already alienated the International community with The War in Iraq alone; can anyone imagine the firestorm if we decided to attempt to invade the entire Middle East? We couldn't even do it from a logistical standpoint with all of the trouble that Iraq alone has given us and we certainly wouldn't be getting any help in "Operation Sandbox Suicide" or whatever you would call such a Military action.
There has to be a more balanced approach between defending ourselves against the radicals that pose an actual threat and encouraging more moderate people in the Middle East to feel like it's worth it and that we are willing to listen. Even though the patterns of violence are clear for whatever reason I refuse to beleive that everyone from that region is inhumane. Insular maybe but Inhumane is a bit of a stretch; Consider our own reactions to attrocities, it doesn't register unless we feel that it affects us directly but if you insult the right people in the right way there are bound to be consequences. It all depends on what your values are.

Originally Posted by thefr0g

Having a pissing contest to decide which religion is worse is fucking stupid. So stop. All the major religions have horrible atrocities committed in their name, and until the entire world wakes up out of its stone age stupor, stop worrying about the spiritual world (God is a fairy tale, you fucking morons), and start concentrating on the physical world, its going to continue. That will never happen.

As it is, its the most Assinine thing I've ever heard to say that we have to "protect our freedom" by taking away our freedom of religion. If you can't see how flawed that is you're even more blind than I'd previously thought.

Originally Posted by theburningbush

Iron it doesnt matter, they are all sympathtic to there cause. It could be handled alot better instead of the pope apologizing he should have said go f yourself and prove to me that your something more then a band of thugs. If the Islamic community responded with violence then we respond in kind and no more worrying about there civalians they dont worry about ours. Honestly we are losing the most important aspect of the battle and that is our politcal strength the international community views us as week and the internal turmoil is just disgusting.

Originally Posted by apostate87

i think muslims are too fucking uptight. most of the christians i know are pretty decent guys but i could walk up and curse at god for an hour and they wouldn't so much as go red in the face. do that in front of most muslims and i would imagine it could get nasty. personally, i think extremists and fanatics should all be shot through the head, they just piss me the fuck off. and it seems like there are a hell of a lot more fanatic muslims than fanatic christians. though christianity does have its fair share. i think the pope is a dumb shit who should probably be starving, i mean, who the fuck is he anyway? hell. i say if you love jesus and believe in god who needs a pope? or a preacher? or anybody but yourself and the lord? and if you love muhammed and believe in allah then fuck everybody else, just try to get along and go with it. maybe muslims just can't do that because their religion is so centered on converting everyone to the "truth", in which case the religion is, in my opinion, flawed. people should find religion, not the other way around.
my verdict: kill anybody anywhere who tries to force his beliefs on others, through violence, intimidation, etc. we just don't need it, folks, and it pisses me off.
btw the pope is such an ass for saying what he did. what the hell was he going for? what was he thinking? i say shove a nuke up his ass and use him to bomb the middle east. shits, all of them.
then again, we're all gonna die anyway so who gives a fuck what happens? i basically just kick back and enjoy (or at least watch) the show.

Originally Posted by Dyshade

You prove it

I know it and it is common knowledge.... hell.... the church apologized for it..... just because you live in the woods and do not grasp common knowledge does not mean that I have to provide you with a linkie for every single small fact I toss out there

Originally Posted by Iron's Rite

While I agree that we shouldn't back down in the face of extremist aggression; all this begs a question for me: Lets assume for the sake of argument that moderates exist in the Arab population; now, has there been any effort to open a dialogue between them and the Western World?
I know that some (Or at least one of you), will attempt to argue that moderate Muslims do not exist due to their silence when extremists attack but lets think about this logically: Why would they care? If talking does nothing to bring peace why should they even bother to try even if they do know better and do long for peace? Just look at our own situation; so many people in America spoke out against the Iraq War but even in a Democracy, it did nothing to stop the Extremists on our side. Can we expect Moderate Muslims to really care to speak out when doing so might put them in danger from the terrorist organizations in their own homeland? Obviously, they also know that we give less then a shit about them on average, so to seek our absolution in the face of this is equally futile and pointless . . . Once again, on our side of things; what happens when Christian Terrorists bomb an abortion clinic? Do we shun the extremist views of some Christians as being incompatable with American values? Obviously not . . . It won't matter until it reaches your own backyard . . .
I think I just depressed myself . . .

Originally Posted by Iron's Rite

Actually, the Pope has been pretty quiet about Catholic Extremists last I knew.

Originally Posted by Iron's Rite

Hardly, what I am trying to do is examine the possible reasons how and why this kind of violence is produced by human beings: Rather then just being short-sighted and saying that there are no alternatives other then responding with further violence. I use the example of Catholicism because I find that the same kind of pyschology is at work; my intention is to point out that our current enemies are not as inhuman or infathomable as they may seem to be and that we can better end this conflict by understanding their motivations and reasoning.

Originally Posted by thefr0g

I don't know if you could call them Catholic Extremists, but the Irish Republican Army was definitely catholic terrorists.

Originally Posted by Iron's Rite

Hardly, what I am trying to do is examine the possible reasons how and why this kind of violence is produced by human beings: Rather then just being short-sighted and saying that there are no alternatives other then responding with further violence. I use the example of Catholicism because I find that the same kind of pyschology is at work; my intention is to point out that our current enemies are not as inhuman or infathomable as they may seem to be and that we can better end this conflict by understanding their motivations and reasoning.

Originally Posted by thefr0g

I don't know if you could call them Catholic Extremists, but the Irish Republican Army was definitely catholic terrorists.

Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd

The pope is an asshole for telling the truth?

Originally Posted by Billy the Kidd

Bullshit, what youre trying to do is to draw a moral similarity between 1 group of people who dont commit atrocities and when or if they eve rhave have fessed up to it and apologized, and a bloodthirsty sect of militant religion expansionists whop have been murdering and buthering people for 1000s of years. Thats what youre doing, liberals are liberals 1st, cant let our pet muzzies go down without demonizing those right wing christians too eh?

Originally Posted by Iron's Rite

Okay, Internet Tough Guy: What is your recommendation? A war that will bankrupt our country and leave thousands of people dead on both sides? Should we nuke them? Because that would be a great way to kick off World War III: The War in Iraq is a failure and it's given the Arab region even more reason to Hate us and no doubt been a great boon for Terrorist recruitment . . . Do you have any realistic, rational solutions or just more foaming at the mouth in idiot terror because you're too stupid and irrational to come up with any realistic solutions?
Of course you don't see why I compare Idealogies: Your an exteremist yourself.

Originally Posted by Iron's Rite

Okay, Internet Tough Guy: What is your recommendation? A war that will bankrupt our country and leave thousands of people dead on both sides? Should we nuke them? Because that would be a great way to kick off World War III: The War in Iraq is a failure and it's given the Arab region even more reason to Hate us and no doubt been a great boon for Terrorist recruitment . . . Do you have any realistic, rational solutions or just more foaming at the mouth in idiot terror because you're too stupid and irrational to come up with any realistic solutions?
Of course you don't see why I compare Idealogies: Your an exteremist yourself.