although i do not believe the same as inky, i respect his belief.
(i being wiccan)

lol. Close enough, but thats not what the Sun looks like that is just what Humans see a golden ball in the sky. It is within our range of visual comprehension to see, there is far more to ths sun than that.
The Sun is far more than just alot of hot gas, it is physcis in motion, atom, molecules gravity etc all working on each other all at once.
Only when you can see the sun from its firmamnt up to its energetic structure can you then start to make guesses at what the Gods are thinking. Right now all we see is one aspect of a greater picture, like looking at the Mona Lisa and seing only the yellow bits.
You may be looking at God but all you will see is another Gold coin in the sky.

it was cruel of a god to create us with a dizzying array of emotions and an ability to enjoy physical pleasures, granting us free will to experience them and then inspiring a patriarchial society to write a book detailing how to punish us for engaging in the true nature of being both animal and human, blaming the wicked lusts and temptation of women for the downfall of pefection...setting irrational expectations to achieve eternal life, selfishly offering his human transcribed words as the only way to find absolution for being human.

cruelity is punishing children, for being more than blindly obedient dogs.

the thing about magick is it's different things to different people, i use magick to improve my relationship with myself and the natural world...it's helped me understand that the only thing that keeps me seperate from the rest of the animal kingdom is that i have a brain i can consciously use, and being of that nature possess an ability to tap into it's various aspects to strengthen my own nature and manifest positive change in my life, by my terms...living as my nature needs, rather than by an external decree.

there is a diffrence between having faith and understanding things or truely seeing something. Faith in something more keeps us going everyday, faith in your abaility to improve your situation or faith in god, ect ect. Its faith that allowed us to build societies in place of nomadic tribes and its faith that will hopefully take us, someday, beyond the limits of our galaxy. The question becomes do we really want to see god, do we really want to understand what he is thinking, do we want to look at the moon and see a rock or do we want to see romantacism. If god is everything he is supposed to be what purpose do we have if we can understand him.

I agree that if there's an infinite Being our there, necessarily we can't fully understand Him/it, but I hate that point where someone asks a question and (if you're a churchy person like I am, obviously) you're stuck saying, "We may not be able to understand that now; we'll have to trust that it's God's will and we'll find out His plan someday." I'd much rather have ended up believing something rational, but maybe you're right, TBB, if we could comprehend the Infinite or found out that there was no Infinite to comprehend, what would be our motivation?
That's something I've wondered, never having been adult without faith: what motivates you if not wanting to relate more fully to God? I think Jordyn's saying she looks for self-awareness/empowerment.
BTW, Jordyn, I so won't preach, but I'll say that a lot of the stuff you mentioned about the Bible isn't how rational Christians really see things. I think we're observing the "vocal minority" problem though, where the least sensible representatives of a subculture are the ones who make their voices heard the loudest.

Inky, I tired once to imagine the infinite I passed out. If there is an infinite being out their we couldn't understand it at all. To us it wwould seem as Chaos. That is why they say that if you "see" God you will go mad and die, because we cant grasp it in our mortal form

If the Source is as they say, It is then of course it is beyond understanding. I am not saying do not have faith in the Creator you have chosen, what I am saying is if you must have faith have faith in the purpose. It is like when you are a baby and your parents first tell you NO and you begin your journey into a fuller understanding of the world around you. You don't currently have the ability to think or guess the motives of your parents but you love them, trust them and even though they may upset you in various ways you believe in their love.
We are born without asking, we live because it is good to be alive, we die as we are born without choice. Motivation, Purpose these are things you must find.Life without meaning is just drifting.
I was a child without faith in the higher powers, I believed in love, I still really only have faith in and believe in Love.

nothing we would have no pupose, which is why no entity exists that fits humanities mold of god, such a being would have no purpose, no reason what so ever to exist

thats a good metaphor, we have projected into god(s) everything we expect from a parent, and just like children the more we learn the more we step away from our parents. in the end we no longer really on them but we take comfort in always knowing they are there to offer love and support.

I don't believe that the Gods are a human construct. I do believe you can outgrow the bible though, Afterall if it IS Jehovah who is responsible the universe around us is his real bible written in his own hand.
I do nopt believe in the Christian concept of God, it is far to restricting to ever represent a true infinitive It.

'

Descartes was a pretty smart dude, but he was on pretty shaky ground with some of his philosophy. It was his assertion that animals had no sentience; they're simply pre-programmed automatons with no feelings... Obviously, the guy never had a pet as a kid.

I would like to ask DesCartes how one would find the begining without haveing some notion of the end?

the material impact of god on man, as far as we are aware, is a defined construct of man