Here's a well-supported misconception I have about wiccans: They spend an awful lot of time compaining about how no one understands their religion because everyone is just too intolerant and ignorant, and that everyone should just leave them alone.

Jordyn?

This makes no sense whatsoever. How can an ecosystem survive with only one type of animal life? That just doesn't work. That's the whole reason you have predator and prey, parasite and host. Living organisms form part of a living system, with its own checks and balances.

...that still doesn't explain why you bother talking about it

Yeah, and Jordyn's lil ditty about alcoholism doesn't really work because Alcoholics Anonymous, the most effective program to fight addiction, while not affiliated with Christianity, is based on it. Oops.

because people like you prefer to trample the rights of others to achieve some unattainable utopia for those who are quite happy with their lives as they are...if no one talks about it, then it leaves the world in the hands of those who prefer such...methods.

"Yeah, and Jordyn's lil ditty about alcoholism doesn't really work because Alcoholics Anonymous, the most effective program to fight addiction, while not affiliated with Christianity, is based on it. Oops."

my point wasn't to validate the christian aspect to it, but rather that if you ask anyone who participates...they are there because they want help for their addiction, and only those who want help, will achieve it...if you force people there, it won't do anyone any good...it's no different than rehab or any other place people go to get deaddicted, religious based or not...simply for those who can't understand...

People can not be changed unless they choose to do so! if you persist in trying to make them change, you are violating them and their rights! but that doesn't matter to some people, does it?

i'm not wiccan, and aren't too fond of them myself, they've become no different than any other organized religion...

No, of course not. Your point was, and usually is, to invalidate it.

As for wiccans, I was lying, my mother is Wiccan and has been for some 20 odd years. She, like my christian father, is also a socialist. She believes that the judeo christian God is the same as the Goddess. My only real prejudice about wiccans is, unless they're women and over 40 years of age, they're probably not serious about it.

and naturally you're only reason here is to cause disharmony with those who do not view the christian faith in a positive manner for their own personal reasons...you're the one that made it a christian discussion...i was simply using an example of an organization well known for successfully helping people overcome addictions...stop taking everything so personal and grow up!

please show an example of me trampling the rights of others

how far do you go to change a person's choice to live how they wish?

you believe you can change the world on a mass scale, how do you propose to do that without telling people what they can and can not do...if a person engages in an activity you think is not ideal for a world wide utopia?

how do you treat a person who you feel should change, but has no desire to?

if you continue to tell them they are wrong to change them to what you think a person should be, that is violating their rights...the government is currently doing it with smoking is a good example...how many smokers are having their rights trashed because a few non-smokers decided it was not good for them personally, so instead of altering their life, they chose to tell others they can't...the non smokers believe they are doing the best for the world...but do they consider the desires and feelings of those who smoke, the public places like lounges and bars that lost business because people can't smoke there?

i don't know how far you've went in trying to change the world, but people LIKE you, as in those who also wish to tell others how to live...do violate rights.

you can't force a person to change, and let them have rights...

Jordyn I'll answer your questions when you show me where I trampled the rights of others.

oh jimminy cricket, not even i think your that daft...where did i say you specifically, i believe it was "people LIKE you"...those people who desire to change the world for "the better" doing so by their expectations of "better", their personal ideals, never bothering to consider the feelings of those they are...changing...how it's affecting the other person...

i choose not to force my will, likes, dislikes, or any of the other "changes" a person needs onto another, because only they can know what they need, if they ask, i can help them figure out what they need, because no one is born with that knowledge, but that's part of growth...

brainstorming with another mind is good for that...but until they are ready or willing to change that aspect to themselves...you are just banging your head against a wall...and that does neither person any good...

...well I'm like me, aren't I?

...or are you just saying that people, not including me, who share my traits regularly trample the rights of others?

Not really, but the oranges must be peeled counter-clockwise.

depends on the traits, hitler wanted to improve the world too...

you still haven't told me how you intend to change the world, what are you going to do to change so many minds on a mass scale, what is it you think you need changing?

you're the one that's persistant that you can indeed change the world into a better place...so how is it done?

....depends on the traits? My traits...the ones you know about, anyway.

....?

and that's why i wonder why you're so adamant about changing the world...people who are still...incomplete people can not help anyone.

'Description of Ad Hominem
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:


Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

Example of Ad Hominem

Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."'