The belief part more has to do with power than control. If you dont believe your not going to put much effort into it are you?

behold the power of belief...

i give up. it's more philosopy anyway. this will never make a difference one way or the other in normal life so it's not worth the frustration.

Ding-Ding-Ding *Goes the Bell* Round One Goes to JJJOOORRRDDDYYYNNN The Delectable... To your corners... *A Bikinii models walks around the ring holding a sign saying "2"*

If once you fail try again and then give up. No use making a fool of yourself.

Necro you can take round 2. maybe you can explain it better than i can.

Jordyn, don't change your views of Chaos and Order, think of them in the same analogies you already use.
Pick something from your life, like the stream thing, still see Chaos and Order whare you saw them before but think of Order as repeatability and Chaos as change.

Don't think of Chaos as random and destructive, think of it as the opposite of Order.
Order is everything in it's place, the stream flowing down the hill, staying inside it's banks all the time.
Chaos is one spring where the stream overflows and carries an acorn out onto it's flood plain where it finds fertile soil and grows into a huge oak tree.

Chaos made the Oak tree, if Chaos hadn't interceeded the oak tree wouldn't be there and all the animals that live in it's shadow wouldn't be there either.

Chaos is creation, growth, life.

If it wasn't for chaos, those two little amino acids that combined and created the first protein wouldn't have bumped into each other, they would have swirled around the primordial soup in an orderly fashion and we wouldn't be here having this discussion.

ordeith, I would, but I already talked about this, and stopped when she stopped disagreeing with me.

i thought that was woman?...and nature...i've seen nothing but persistance from opinions suggesting that chaos is something besides a term to describe confusion...i find nothing chaotic about a seed falling from a tree in fall, taking root and in spring sprouting, it's planned by nature to work that way...

who says there was anything random about human life...*shrugs* sure it could have been a chaotic factor that brought life to this planet, but what if it was all planned?

sorry i did not read all the posts, but i will insert my view. Order is simply channeled chaos. magick is channeled energy (sorry so generic, but i'm not trying to define magick itself). one can not exist or operate without the other. they are the same, but different...equal, yet opposite. again, it's all about perspective. magick is not absolute, it depends on an individuals convictions and beliefs. what you believe enables your manipulation of energy. the path can vary, but the outcome is the same.

I can field this one.

Chaos is actually balance but disguised.

For example; lets's say someone put a protection spell on a home or a circle. The only ones in control would be the ones that could control the unseen forces would be the ones who started the protection spell, or approved of aniciants. If however someone broke the seal then chaos would come back into line. It would be an open field.

There would be so much bickering that people not associated would have their own squad to interfer, or just whatever out there that didn't like them messing with the dirrectives of the person or persons giving order.

That is a magickal summation, however, it works just as well in real life. Many people from abusive homes break the seal when they speak up and invite other people to critisize their actions.

this statement...i can't disagree with...well done!

*gives round two to hexsass*

Are you sure magick is channeled energy?

Thought it would be good to step up and mention chaos magic is not controled. It's just there. That the point of chaos no control, taking the highs and the lows. A circle of protection might be safer, unless whatever you are channeling changes its' mind. Having a little chaos is good.

Actually, if you think about people who do practice certain types of magick and it is pleasing to there spirital counter part to kill their pets or things smaller than yourself, I would think chaos is an excellent idea.

everything naturally occuring is energy...magick is simply a directed flow of these energies by an external influence. However there may be other theories as to what magick is...being an unprovable art there's no hard and fast concept as to what magick is...just that it does work for people who practice it...

again i was not attempting to define magic, and i am a firm believer in chaotic miagicks or "magick do as you will" type scenario. Yet, still, for any outcome to take place focus must be applied to the affected. even if this is random, the interuption of energy would constitute a focus.

yeah, jordyn, i like to appreciate all views yet still hold to my mine.

-Hex

i just agree with the concept that magick practices don't require drawing from some(still uncomprehdable to me)chaotic factor. Nothing that is varied by the human mind can be identical to another.

*holding to your own views is good, being able to defend them in a reasonable manner is even more admirable...

i hope i did so. i would hate to think i was being unreasonable.