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Religion & The Occult Discuss History of "Christmas".. heh. in the Debate and Discussion forums; Reprinted from holidays.net The history of Christmas dates back over 4000 years. Many of our Christmas traditions were celebrated centuries before the Christ child was born. The 12 days ...

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History of "Christmas".. heh. - 12-13-01

Reprinted from holidays.net

The history of Christmas dates back over 4000 years. Many of our Christmas traditions were celebrated centuries before the Christ child was born. The 12 days of Christmas, the bright fires, the yule log, the giving of gifts, carnivals(parades) with floats, carolers who sing while going from house to house, the holiday feasts, and the church processions can all be traced back to the early Mesopotamians.

Many of these traditions began with the Mesopotamian celebration of New Years. The Mesopotamians believed in many gods, and as their chief god - Marduk. Each year as winter arrived it was believed that Marduk would do battle with the monsters of chaos. To assist Marduk in his struggle the Mesopotamians held a festival for the New Year. This was Zagmuk, the New Year's festival that lasted for 12 days.

The Mesopotamian king would return to the temple of Marduk and swear his faithfulness to the god. The traditions called for the king to die at the end of the year and to return with Marduk to battle at his side.

To spare their king, the Mesopotamians used the idea of a "mock" king. A criminal was chosen and dressed in royal clothes. He was given all the respect and privileges of a real king. At the end of the celebration the "mock" king was stripped of the royal clothes and slain, sparing the life of the real king.

The Persians and the Babylonians celebrated a similar festival called the Sacaea. Part of that celebration included the exchanging of places, the slaves would become the masters and the masters were to obey.

Early Europeans believed in evil spirits, witches, ghosts and trolls. As the Winter Solstice approached, with its long cold nights and short days, many people feared the sun would not return. Special rituals and celebrations were held to welcome back the sun.

In Scandinavia during the winter months the sun would disappear for many days. After thirty-five days scouts would be sent to the mountain tops to look for the return of the sun. When the first light was seen the scouts would return with the good news. A great festival would be held, called the Yuletide, and a special feast would be served around a fire burning with the Yule log. Great bonfires would also be lit to celebrate the return of the sun. In some areas people would tie apples to branches of trees to remind themselves that spring and summer would return.

The ancient Greeks held a festival similar to that of the Zagmuk/ Sacaea festivals to assist their god Kronos who would battle the god Zeus and his Titans.

The Roman's celebrated their god Saturn. Their festival was called Saturnalia which began the middle of December and ended January 1st. With cries of "Jo Saturnalia!" the celebration would include masquerades in the streets, big festive meals, visiting friends, and the exchange of good-luck gifts called Strenae (lucky fruits).

The Romans decked their halls with garlands of laurel and green trees lit with candles. Again the masters and slaves would exchange places.

"Jo Saturnalia!" was a fun and festive time for the Romans, but the Christians though it an abomination to honor the pagan god. The early Christians wanted to keep the birthday of their Christ child a solemn and religious holiday, not one of cheer and merriment as was the pagan Saturnalia.

But as Christianity spread they were alarmed by the continuing celebration of pagan customs and Saturnalia among their converts. At first the Church forbid this kind of celebration. But it was to no avail. Eventually it was decided that the celebration would be tamed and made into a celebration fit for the Christian Son of God.

Some legends claim that the Christian "Christmas" celebration was invented to compete against the pagan celebrations of December. The 25th was not only sacred to the Romans but also the Persians whose religion Mithraism was one of Christianity's main rivals at that time. The Church eventually was successful in taking the merriment, lights, and gifts from the Saturanilia festival and bringing them to the celebration of Christmas.

The exact day of the Christ child's birth has never been pinpointed. Traditions say that it has been celebrated since the year 98 AD. In 137 AD the Bishop of Rome ordered the birthday of the Christ Child celebrated as a solemn feast. In 350 AD another Bishop of Rome, Julius I, choose December 25th as the observance of Christmas.





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12-13-01

they didn't mention the kelts?



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12-13-01

Hmmm..I wonder why we celebrate it at the 24th..?


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Don't let me know when you're opening the door
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12-13-01

I prefer to have the 24th for my friends...I have them over and there are refreshments and beverages, the kids get to open some of their presents...christmas day is usually the family day with a big dinner and everyone gets together and opens the presents for eachother...



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12-13-01

actually I forget which day.. but the 24th or 25th is a roman holiday... actually a Saturn's festival.. I shall look it up forit was through my own research, that the day was taken from a roman festival.


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If you stare long into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you.

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Saturnalia - 12-13-01

This ritual compresses the Consualia (for Consus, God of the Storage Bin), the Saturnalia (for Saturn, God of Sowing), and the Opalia (for Ops, Goddess of Plenty) into a single festival, a Brumalia, or Winter Solstice (Bruma) ritual. The Saturnalia Chants are available on a separate page, which may be printed for use in the ritual.

The primary sources for this ritual are Macrobius' Saturnalia (Bk. I, Chs. 7, 8, 10, 11) and Scullard's Festivals and Ceremonies of the Roman Republic (pp. 205-7). (There is additional information available on the Saturnalia, Consualia and Opalia; see De Saturno & Jano Tractatus for background information on Saturn.)

This ritual is dedicated to the Gods and may be used for any nonprofit purpose, provided that its source is acknowledged.

Rest of the Ritual HERE
  
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From somecrazy Christian site... - 12-13-01

Saturnalia, The Festival of Christmas

Leviticus 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech (sun - god) -- Defile not ye yourselves in "any of these things" -- Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not "any one of these abominable customs" -- and that ye defile not yourselves therein.

Deuteronomy 12:30, 32 -- (Speaking of the heathen sun and moon worship) Take heed - enquire not of their gods -- What thing soever I command you observe and do it "thou shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it.

Jeremiah 10:2,3 -- Learn not the way (course of life; mode of action)

Of the heathen --for the "customs" of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest -- They deck it with silver and gold -- Note: The grove was the only tree goddess (moon) in Israel and was introduced as such by Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal (with Baal), a priest of the Astarte (tree god-Allah) of Babylon (I Kings 16:31-3. It is the same system that was ejected by the Persian kings and found its seat in Pergamos (Rev. 2:1. This Chaldean (Babylonian) worship became part and parcel of the Roman people when Attalus III (the last king of Pergamos) left by will, all his dominions to the Roman people. Thus it merged into the Romanist system. The grove in Israel is the very Christmas tree of the Saturnalia (moon mid sun worship) as placed into the Roman church by Constantine. (Babylon mothered "all" idolatry - Rev. 17:15) Colossians 2:8 -- Beware lest any man spoil (seduce into captivity) you through philosophy (love of man's wisdom) and vain deceit (empty delusion), after the tradition (instruction) of men, after the rudiments (principles) of this world, and not after Christ.

The Christmas Festival was not celebrated in the church till the fourth century A.D. Two thousand years before Jesus was born, the pagans celebrated a festival called the Saturnalia (feast of Saturn) in honor of the birth of the son (Saturn, Adonis - Hercules) of the Babylonian 'Queen of Heaven' (Venus). This yearly revelry (drunken New Year feast) was a "birthday" to honor the "unconquerable sun", Saturn. Saturn was the fertility god among the pagans. The pagans assisted their fertility sun god in his promise to bring new crops in the spring by helping to warm the earth putting a yule (fire wheel, child of the sun) log on the fire and building large bonfires (Baal-fires). Believing the evergreen to be magical, the pagans hung wreaths, holly and greenery in their pagan temples and homes. Hence, "Deck the halls with boughs of holly". They erected evergreens at this rebirth of the sun in the depth of winter during the Saturnalia (Dec. 17- Dec. 25). Alexander Hislop speaks In Two Babylons published in 1916:

In order to conciliate the heathen, and to swell the number of adherents to

Christianity, the same festival was adopted by the church and given only the name of Christ (Christmas). That Christmas was originally pagan is beyond all doubt. To conciliate the pagans to nominal Christianity, Rome took measures to get the Christian and Pagan festivals amalgamated. The Pontiffs' first measure was to encircle the heads of the images of Christ with the rays of the sun. This "halo" was, in ancient times, behind the head of AEsculapius, the Serpent, the child of the sun. The "golden beams" around the heads of pictures and images called by the name of Christ were intended to show pagans that they might safely worship them, as the images of their well known divinities, though called by another name.

Pope Julius I gave Christmas (the Mass of Christ) its pagan name. It did not appear on the calender as a holiday until 354 A.D. It was not celebrated by the early church. In pagan antiquity, December 25, was known far and wide as the very birthday of Adonis, the Herculean sun-god of Babylon. Fleeing Papal persecution during the reformation, the Puritans banned the celebration of Christmas to be heresy and passed laws against it, exacting criminal penalties for its celebration. Christmas was not a legal holiday in America until 1856. It is the custom of the heathen, for which God pronounced judgement from the mouths of the prophets (the 70 weeks of Daniel - Dan. 9:24-27; The Valley of Dry Bones - Ezek. 37). Halloween, the fire worship of the Druids, a later version of this Godless system, finds its roots in the heart of this Christmass (Saturnalia) festival. Oh, how we have erred from the principles of the Word of God. God have mercy on us.

http://www.graceandtruth.net/tracts/Saturnalia.html
  
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12-13-01

I thought December 25 was the birthday of Osiris.





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12-13-01

maybe they were all born on the same day...and jesus too



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12-14-01

Quote:
Originally posted by Jordyn
they didn't mention the kelts?
You noticed too?


I want to live in a world of peace
Without conflict, like the one I’ve seen in my dreams.
I just can’t keep it inside
I’ve gotta say what I wanna say
Your face doesn’t show your fighting pose.
  
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Re: History of "Christmas".. heh. - 12-14-01

Quote:
Originally posted by Sire


To spare their king, the Mesopotamians used the idea of a "mock" king. A criminal was chosen and dressed in royal clothes. He was given all the respect and privileges of a real king. At the end of the celebration the "mock" king was stripped of the royal clothes and slain, sparing the life of the real king.
Ok, this one is also a Celtic tradation that is still practiced in Ireland but instead of a Criminal we usa a Goat. It's hilarious, the goat can and does do whatever it wants for a weekend
It's just an excuse for a piss up

It's called the Puck fair

As for Christs Birthday, If the star was actually Halleys Comet (which is very likely) then he was born on the 23rd of September.

The dates of Christmas (Advent,The epiphany and Christmas day) all coincide with Celtic new year festivals.

The thing you have to remember is that Christianity was almost completly wiped out in the sixth century (I think, never was good with years) and the last bastion was Ireland, When things calmed down every school and College in Europe got themselves an Irish monk to teach them all the History and Religion they had lost (that's where the name Land of Saints and Scholars comes from).
There are Librarys over here where you can go and read the bibles that the Monks copied and the ones they copied from.
Lets just say that some poetic licence was used when it came to dates and events
So from that point it was more of an editorial than a record of events

Does that satisfy the Celtic requirement (I'm not really into it myself, it's just what I learned in school)



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Re: From somecrazy Christian site... - 12-14-01

Quote:
Originally posted by AAAAA
The Pontiffs' first measure was to encircle the heads of the images of Christ with the rays of the sun. This "halo" was, in ancient times, behind the head of AEsculapius, the Serpent, the child of the sun. [/url]
Now this made me wonder...isn't the serpent the big bad monster in christianity, the incarnation of evil intentions? And still, for the sake of christening, they blend it with the purest icon they have..?


As for the star, there is a star, a part of Orion, I think, that we can only see during christmas, and it shines a lot stronger than the others...


Dec 25th...we don't really do any specific celebrations there...is Scandinavia the only place to take the whole celebration on the 24th, presents and all?


You promised me the ending would be clear
You'd let me know when the time was now
Don't let me know when you're opening the door
Stab me in the dark, let me disappear
  
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12-14-01

Yep, as far as I know.

Another thing (Make sure the kids don't read this bit)

St Nicholas was Turkish, he was born in Turkey, lived in Turkey, never left Turkey and died in Turkey.

He wouldn't have known reindeer or a sleigh if it smacked him in the face with a haddock.



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12-14-01

I heard a story once...a russian tale. A woman lost her kids right before christmas, but instead of packing away their presents, she stuffed them in a sack and walked from house to house, giving out presents to the children there...but no matter how many gifts she gave away, her sack never got empty. So in Russia, Santa is a woman.


You promised me the ending would be clear
You'd let me know when the time was now
Don't let me know when you're opening the door
Stab me in the dark, let me disappear
  
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12-14-01

And kids weren't afraid of a Woman with a big white fluffy beard??



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12-14-01

I thought the 25th was the first day of the twelve days of Christmas as listed in the bible..... some funky thing like that


Forgiveness? That's between you and your God. I'm just here to make sure that you keep your appointment.

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12-14-01

Quote:
Originally posted by Feroluce
And kids weren't afraid of a Woman with a big white fluffy beard??
:p


Funny little bastard...


You promised me the ending would be clear
You'd let me know when the time was now
Don't let me know when you're opening the door
Stab me in the dark, let me disappear
  
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Re: Re: From somecrazy Christian site... - 12-14-01

Quote:
Originally posted by Clearwitch
Now this made me wonder...isn't the serpent the big bad monster in christianity, the incarnation of evil intentions? And still, for the sake of christening, they blend it with the purest icon they have..?
Um, I think I'm misreading you, but where do they "blend" the serpent with the "purest icon" (i.e. Jesus I take it)? They merely take the "halo" from the serpent and stick it on Jesus, not really blending...

Quote:
Dec 25th...we don't really do any specific celebrations there...is Scandinavia the only place to take the whole celebration on the 24th, presents and all?
Well Germany (and prolly therefore Austria, Poland, Czchekoslovakia) celebrates on 24th too, but I suppose that's part of Scandinavia really...
  
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