I don't like your red writing, but I agree. In my day to day, I'm pretty quiet about it though since I'm not for bursting people's bubbles. If it works for you, fine. I've tried on some religions, but I never found anything that fit.

I also find that there is a lot written out there that is irrelevant to myself. I don't need religion, so I chose not to devote my time to it. There are people close to me that enjoy searching for answers in not necessarily religion but a lot of things that are unexplained - theories and faith I guess. Doesn't work for me.

religion exists... its hard not to believe that people surrender their collective responsibility for existence to that of a higher power... its just sad that people are that stupid.

Anyone else find it slightly intriguing(sp?) that some of the first wars were over religion? "peaceful" gods have such violent followers. and where is the christian god now? he was famous during the days of the bible but now? has he been resting for a few hundred years letting this world turn to shit? who knows. maybe there just needs to be a balance between good and evil. a cycle...or even a karma like effect. makes sense, except to a devout christian or some other religion.now I'm just rambling, but in my head, it all makes sense.

let's not get religion confused with fundamental christianity...religion has been around since man first took refuge in the caves, hit a few stagalites giving an eerie echo to the darkest depths of the cave and inspired the development of ideas and fears into tangible ochre shapes and designs rubbed into walls...

using this basis for religion, the first wars were not over religion, but for the survival of early nomadic tribes establishing themselves on land that appealed to other nomadic tribes.

there are so many religions in the world to associate them all with hard core christianity is not entirely fair to those who choose to demonstrate the best virtues of religion.

some eastern religions have little to no belief in gods at all, choosing to harm nothing, and live their life in pursuit of that belief...

there's wicca that's become an established religion, ascribing to many gods and opening the pathway for others to grow and spread their own beliefs, growing tired of dogma, but taking the core beliefs and developing another form of belief, and some of those have developed into their own religion, again leaving those who believe in the core lessons and develop their own beliefs, which may or may not result in a religion depending on how received and established it becomes.

not all religions are war like or use their dogma to support missionary work. some choose to demonstrate the faith in their relgion through gestures of goodwill and generosity to the less fortunate...karma is a good example of this belief, and those who ascribe to an eastern based religion are often times going above and beyond goodness to assure their karma and placement in the afterlife are as positive as they are in their life.

there's a fine line between spiritual belief and religion...and both can be used to destroy another belief, if so desired. i myself have been involved in stimulating arguements based on esoterical belief, no religion involved...but just as destructively fundamental as the more negative focuses of an established religion.

religion is based on established beliefs, passed on from generation to generation, each adding their own twist to it, but if it was so..destructively rigid, there'd be no alllowances of other denominations, no free will to choose to worship or not.

It's not easy for all people to look into the night sky and say i believe, some people need a hand to hold and help them see there's something to believe, and religion offers that, a refuge for those incapable of discovering their own beliefs.

everyone needs to believe in something, spiritual or not...

not everything about organized religion is negative, it can unite people under a common goal, it can inspire people to do good...the christian god wasn't always peaceful...that came with the new testament, in the old testament, he'd give Bush a run for his money in the awe and fear technique when dealing with those who chose to not believe as his followers decreed they should, and created that religion based on their perceptions of what is right and what is not...by standards set forth by the example of one man who may or may not have existed, and the visions of simple men.

it is true, some horrible things have been done, and still are in the name of a passive god by fundamental zealots, but is it really religion to blame, or those who subscribe to the hellfire and brimstone approach to life, with an inability to accept people are different and use established dogma and beliefs against those who choose to live differently from their established beliefs.

some of the most stimulating discussions i've had were with those who had a specific religion versus my beliefs that can be associated with alternate religions, but are not based on any specific dogma, and some of the most frustrating and narrow minded arguements were with those who subscribed to no religion in particular and had no belief in anything spiritual, arguing the mudane as reality and everything else...false.

for every person who's demonstrated the worst aspects of religion, i've met a person who've taught me that even without a religion, those who believe can be as...fundamental and closed minded about other beliefs as those who condemn me for believing.

religion is just a word without a person to believe in it...and it's how that person chooses to live that sets forth the example for other perceptions, it's not the established belief that's been passed on for generations that make it hateful and destructive or peaceful and inspiring.

but the person who believes.

am i stupid my dear rogue?

First you say:
And then:

As if it's a bad thing. Just pointing that out.

I think it's important for people to explore the religion they were born into, or raised in. It's a popular notion today that we can just up and reject the dogma, beliefs, values, dieties, etc. associated with our first religion. I don't know why or how it became the standard. People used to use their coming of age to get a deeper understanding, not a total rejection. I can understand a disagreement with some of the values and dogmas, but most people take that to mean they have to totally abandon faith, which must not have been very closely held if that's possible. Most of the problems people have with their first faith stem from mispractice by the role models - their parents, worship community, politicians, etc. We don't seem to realize that People Are Fallible: we all do things wrong sometimes, and it's not necessarily the religion that's at fault, so much as the people who identify with it. It really gets under my skin that people quit without trying to understand.

Quote:

Have you died? no, then you don't know whats out there. neither do I but these are my beliefs.

Why does that matter? How does death factor in as the main point of religion? Who's to say there's any afterlife at all? Much of religion concerns the living. Death is the end of life, not the entirety of it. Many of the world's traditions hold, if not encourage, that we can come to experience or know deity/the divine during our lifetimes. In some traditions, there is no connection to the divine at death, at all. Besides, it's not always something you have to see to believe

Quote:

I carry many beliefs, all fitting into many different religions, but i am not of any religion.

On a different note, I am not against the idea of picking and choosing faith, beliefs, values, deities, truths, etc. from different religions and traditions... but I do think that there is a point where it goes too far. There's this whole subjectivity in modern spirituality that "everything is okay" as long as the person doing it believes it's okay. I don't think that's right. I don't think we can worship a Mayan goddess and an African god in a Wiccan circle at a Christian high holiday in Buddhist robes with a Hindu meditation and call it religion. But some people do. I'm not saying people can't do that, I'm just saying they shouldn't call the practice religion. It's more like dabbling, in a very confused and misinformed way.

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Thank you, this happens far too often, we're so western-minded.

Some would disagree - I know of a few Wiccan trads with rigid dogma. I know of some anti-dogma trads that shouldn't be called Wicca at all.

Hahahahahahaha. Yes.

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sorry if I'm a little too bitchy today

good point...i stand corrected.

only if you surrender responsility for you own actions to a "higher power" or claim divine right from the same.

as tempted as i've been, i prefer handling my own demons...

Keep that up and you'll go blind.

not if i carefully word the deal...

No one can prove their Religion is the only way, there is just no way. They are Ideals, a way of life, but clearly not the only way of life. Why then must we insist that other religions are wrong? Most people that are religious are only in their religion because that what they have access to (either forced upon them because they happened to be born into a (insert religion here) family.

Is that something worth fighting others for? Killing people won't change their minds about their ideals.

i think that's why movies like dogma and the anticipated da vinci code are so popular, they point out the fallacies of one of the more common religion...it's sad so many follow it because they know no other way...i wonder how many people do get up go to church, go to breakfast and then go home and be a normal person...sin and all.

does killing people different than you ever solve anything?

it lets us get their oil for a time...

politics, in religion?...bad idea!

i think the roman church and the christian coalition have successfully proven that they make detrimental befellows.

perhaps... but it's difficult not to make the connection with all the faith based initiatives and "abstinence only" programs.