I am beginning a new thread here in religion for our new member Friend because our old discussion has had its run. There are a few topics I wish to further discuss though which do not deal with his anti-holocaust opinions.

I will start it with his apparent lack of knowledge in the conversion to Judaism field. He states clearly that one has to be born a Jew to be a Jew and that Gentiles cannot be converted. This is simple untruth and is often put forward by those with anti-semetic views as yet another reason to hate those who profess judaism as thier religious views.

First--- a note--- I am not Jewish nor do i especially care for thier religious views. I just hate those who decide to hate without knowing all the facts. I would advise that if you do decide to hate something you get to know it in and out so you are not seen as a fool.

A gentile CAN be converted into the Judaic faith. I do not need to put forth an endless stream of idiotic links to prove this. It can be found out by anyone who wishes to know. Yet the simple truth is that if you are sincere and you really wish to become a Jew you can.

You have called me misinformed and ignorant and you do not even know who I am nor what my beliefs are nor what I have read or studied in order to come to the conclusions I have come to.

I am not defending Judaism. I am merely defending historical FACT. It was people--- PEOPLE--- who were killed in WW2 regardless of race.

I will address other issues that you brought forth in our discussion. Do not expect idiotic links or baseless vacant and vacuous opinions. Expect knowledge and fact. I find that those who throw forth links and cut and paste are filling in for knowledge that they do not possess. Or forwarding ideas that are volatile and/or based on hatred.

So... in effect.... any Gentile can become a Jew if they are sincere and educate themselves as to how to go about it.

You are right

Any gentile who seriously wants to convert and it comitted enough to go through the studies can be converted.
It's not easy but it's possible and it happens quite a lot.
Especially in the USA where there even is an online conversion programm...
Here in Europe things are more strict and you have to study with a rabbi to know the basics and to see if you really want to chose this path.

Also converts can become Israeli citizens if they want, if their conversion was orthodox.

errrmmm...as I said in the previous thread, if you ring up the Israeli embassy or consulate and just ask about immigration to Israel i.e. citizenship. You will be told that unless you a born a jew or of jewish decent you cannot become a citizen of Israel and cannot emmigrate to that country and hence become a jew.

Another fact, the Cohens are regarded as the ruling jewish class. No gentile is allowed to marry a Cohen under jewish law, and in fact under jewish law - which is called Hallakah, no jew is allowed to marry a gentile. this is in the Talmud.

Have you ever read the Talmud?

You can convert to judaism, but you'll never be considered as a real in the their own eyes.
My best friend's brother married a jew and converted to judaism,he did all the necessary things to do (even circumcision).
But still the jewish community and her family consider him as a real jew,more like a "wanabee".

Jews are more like an ethnical race.

once again - everyone pretends their an expert on the jewish religion, and yet few has ever read the Talmud.

amazing!

it's like saying - 'I know what it smells like in the Sistine Chapel" without ever having been to the Sistine Chapel.

amazing!


like I suggest - check your facts before you post, ring the Israeli embassy in any country and ask for citizenship details, they will tell you - sorry unless you are born a jew or of jewish decent.

correct!

from our point of view - we see it as a religion, and hence practising judaism is ok from our point of view. However, and this is where most of you are ignorant, jews will never consider anyone a jew unless they have jewish blood.

so from the jews point of view - its a racial issue, not a religous one.

our ignorance is that we try to imagine we can become jews by practising their religion, but we cant, and in fact we shouldnt try, because its not our religion.

so once again i'm going to ask everyone here who thinks they are an expert on the jewish religion:

have you ever read the Talmud?

I know my facts, I'm Jewish myself.
You can be an Israeli citizen if your conversion was orthodox.

From the Israeli ministry of foreign affairs:
"Acquisition of Nationality according to the Law of Return

The Law of Return (1950) grants every Jew, wherever he may be, the right to come to Israel as an oleh (a Jew immigrating to Israel) and become an Israeli citizen.

For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother, or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion.

Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country or of receipt of an oleh's certificate, whichever is later. A person may declare, within three months, that he/she does not wish to become a citizen.

An oleh's certificate may be denied to persons who:

1. engage in activity directed against the Jewish people;
2. may endanger public health or the security of the state;
3. have a criminal past, likely to endanger public welfare.

Since 1970, the right to immigrate under this law has been extended to include the child and the grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of the grandchild of a Jew. The purpose of this amendment is to ensure the unity of families, where intermarriage had occurred; it does not apply to persons who had been Jews and had voluntarily changed their religion.


Acquisition of Nationality by Residence

Special provision is made in the Nationality Law for former citizens of British Mandatory Palestine. Those who remained in Israel from the establishment of the State in 1948 until the enactment of the Nationality Law of 1952, became Israeli citizens by residence or by return.

According to an amendment (1980), further possibilities to acquire citizenship by residence, were included in the law.


Acquisition of Nationality by Naturalization

Adults may acquire Israeli citizenship by naturalization at the discretion of the Minister of the Interior and subject to a number of requirements, such as:

1. they must have resided in Israel for three years out of the five years preceding the day of submission of the application.

2. they are entitled to reside in Israel permanently and have settled or intend to settle in Israel;

3. they have renounced their prior nationality, or have proved that they will cease to be foreign nationals upon becoming Israeli citizens.

The Minister of the Interior may exempt an applicant from some of these requirements."




And yes, I have read the Talmud, the real one, not the online version of it.

so what does the Talmud say about Goys?

explain how a gentile, (or a goy if you wish) can become orthodox?

i.e. under section 4B of Israeli law, is states a jew is either born of a jew or converts to judaism IF HE/SHE IS NOT A MEMBER OF ANOTHER RELIGION. So if you are baptised at birth into the catholic religion you will never be a jew and this is the same for other religions.

in addition, the ammendments by the Knesset March 10th, 1970 state:

"2. In section 5 of the Law of Return, 5710-1950, the following shall be
added at the end: "Regulations for the purposes of sections 4A and 4B
require the approval of the Constitution, Legislation and Juridical
Committee of the Knesset.".

3. In the Population Registry Law, 5725-1965, the following section
shall be inserted after section 3:5725-1965.

3A. (a) A person shall not be registered as a Jew by ethnic affiliation
or religion if a notification under this Law or another entry in the
Registry or a public document indicates that he is not a Jew, so long as
the said notification, entry or document has not been controverted to
the satisfaction of the Chief Registration Officer or so long as
declaratory judgment of a competent court or tribunal has not otherwise
determined."

Basically this means, anyone who cannot prove they are genetic jew, they require the Knesset approval in accordance with the constitution, legislature and juridicial commitee, and in most cases permission is not granted even if they have converted to judaism. i.e. it's a trick to stop non-jews residing permantely in Israel, because the jews in Israel are filled with bigest hatred, bigotry and racism for all other peoples - especially the Palestinians.

Here's the Israel law of return (Aliyah) passed by the Knesset: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/int16.htm - notice the ammendments.

so what does it say about goy in the Talmud?

and is it true you are the chosen people?

If so, then you believe you are superior to other human beings, making you a racist.

I rest my case. - Jews are Racist.

The problem with the jews and more specifically Zionist / Orthodox jews a.k.a 'Jewish Supremacists', is they thought that their little secrets would never get out i.e. they could always keep them secret from the rest of the world. However with the internet, talk about the jewish supremacists, their religion, traditions, their treatment of Palestinians and other goy, and their phony story of the 'Holohoax' is now rife amongst many people, and its spreading like wildfire.

People are waking up, especially in the west. After nearly 100 years of domination of the media by jewish supremacists for the sole interest of jews, this is finally cracking - thank god for the internet.

The jewish supremacists have decieved the whole world with many things, here's a list:

* Slavery
* Capatilism
* Communism
* WW1
* WW2
* The communist revolution
* The Holohoax
* The Lavon Affair and USS Liberty
* The rape and pillage of Palestine
* The Iraq war

It's amazing the trickery of these people and how they have subverted the world especially the open universal nature of European societies in N.America, Europe and Russia.

However, it's not suprising considering their heritage as a semitic people. 'Hebrew' means - ''wanderer' i.e. nomad. The semitic people of the middle east including the Arabs, Hashemites, Moors and Bedouin have a unique way of life. As the region consists of mostly desert, resources esp water is in short supply and regarded very highly. With this environment, the tribes of the middle east are in a constant struggle against each other for the resources and inveitabley fierce tribal loyalties have developed. In addition, survival has also been made possible with a mercantile way of life, semitic people and esp jews are adept at being middle men - thus the practice of slavery is still regarded as a legitimate trade by both the jews and the muslims - but not by people of European decent.

However, when the jews starting causing trouble with the European Romans, the Romans had none of it. In AD 70, Titus and 3 possibley 4 legions destroyed the jewish temple and crushed the jews in their own homeland. The jews have been dispersed ever since, and for over 2000 years they have been looking for an opportunity to go back there, and to rebuild their temple for the worship of their supposed god or Yahweh.

That happened just after 1945, with considerable assistance from the international community because the jews used emotional blackmail by fabricating the 'Holohoax'. Since then 'jewish supremacists' have continued their expansion into Palestinian territories, and have continued their strangle hold on the western media and society, in particular with America - check the Preface to Culture of Critique link below by a Professor.

To bring everyone upto date, the jews have recognised the role of America as the worlds only superpower, and hence they have consolidated their strangle hold over the Pentagon and government - check out the Neo-Cons. With this power they designed the Iraq war, see the document: "A Clean Break: securing the realm", by the neo-cons, and have tricked G Bush into invading Iraq to remove Saddam which is a key part of their strategy.

Now, i'm not saying all jews are bad, or all jews are 'jewish supremacists', some jews oppose the policies of the Israeli government, and some jews do not like the Orthodox jewish strangle hold on Israel. However, as a group, the biggest group within this group are the 'Jewish Supremicists' which consists of the Neo-Cons, World Zionist Organisation and the Orthodox. These people are not good people, these people are racist and afflicted by a tradition which preaches/teaches hatred and bigotry of other people.

These people will stop at nothing including provoking a nuclear war to get that s*itty little piece of land in the middle east which they call 'Holy', and remember all this is from the the so called 'holy chosen people'.

Jewish Supremacists have to be stopped. I'm not talking about killing or violence, no, political opposition is the way. However, people need to realise who these people are, what they stand for and then how to stop their perverse agenda. so vote them out of power.

I have proven my point. You were wrong. You can convert to Judaism if you are sincere and follow thier guidelines. All else that has been posted by you within the confines of this thread is irrespective of that fact. I forwarded the fact and it has been seconded by a practicing Jew. You can deny the fact if you so wish and yet that does not refute it. Denial of a habit does not make it go away it is still a habit. Denial of a fact does not immediately make it a "non-fact".

Your attempts at obfuscation will not unmake the fact that a Gentile can convert to Judaism and become an israeli national as well.

Your Baptism statements make no sense in that they do not have any relevance to the subject at hand. I know many ex-catholics who were baptised and yet are no longer catholics-- notice the "ex" in front of catholic.

Your conspiracy theories are no better than any others and are entirely fictitious.

I will let you chew upon my words before forwarding my next issue with some of your statements prior to this thread.

Let me make one more statement-- maybe a couple--- my having read or not read the "talmud" has no bearing on this discussion. Your ploy is to make me out to be ignorant in the face of your enlightened intelligence. Those who know me here and have known me here for over 4 years know that I can readily admit when I am wrong and that I would never forward an argument in which I did not have any knowledge of.

Yet to clear it up an dto enlighten you as well. I have read portions of the Talmud, the entirety of several versions of the Christian bible including the mormon testements, along with several other holy books from several religions from the worlds varied cultures. I am niether ignorant nor am I stupid. I am not brainwashed. I question everything and anything which promotes an ideal which forwards intolerance as one of its main tenants. Which is why I question your opinions.

Which is why I will continue to question your motives and opinions while you are here.

Friend is right, to a point. I don't think "race" is the right word for it. "Bloodline" might be more accurate, because it crosses racial lines. Anyone born of a jewish mother is a jew, even if they don't practise the religion.

I do not contest the fact that as well as a religion it is known as a racial terminology. So of course someone who is not born jewish cannot attest to its bloodline. Yet someone who wants to practice Judaism and who is not a born Jew may be converted. He denied this. He says it is false when it is a truth. As such I question the integrity and validity of all the rest of his knowledge as well as for other reasons I posted beforehand.

The term for the "Jewish" race would be "Hebrew". Judaism denotes religious beliefs.


Friend is an idiot.

I never denied that a non-jew can practice judaism, check my back post to confirm. What I said in a previous post is non-jews can practice judaism, and non-jews may stake a claim by following this religion to being jewish. However, and this is the important issue, jews especially in Israel and especially the ruling class like the Cohens, Orthodox, will never accept you as a jew unless you can prove your jewish decent from Abraham.

Most semitic people in the middle east, i.e. Arabs, Bedouin, Moors and jews etc, keep a precise record of their ancestors, that's why in Matthew chapter 1 you see all the "Jacob begat Joseph, and Joseph begat Jesus the son of mary". Matthew was trying to prove the jewish heritage of Jesus ( whether jesus was a jew or as the jews say born of a Roman solidier - Mr Pentari is a seperate debate ) however, I will repeat, semitic people take their heritage and bloodlines very seriously, and they will meticoulously record their ancestors - such as the jews have done, and hence unless you can prove your bloodline connection you will find it virtually impossible to be accepted as a jew in their eyes.

The Israeli law of return - 'Aliyah' states that it will allow people who have converted to judaism, yet they contradicted this by saying if you dont have a jewish mother, you will need Knesset approval. I know this because once a upon a long ago I wanted to emmigrate to Palestine when the hit-tech boom was going on. I was told that I could get a work visa, but I would never be given citizenship unless I could prove my jewish blood heritage.

Think of the Palestinians. Why are Palestinians driven out by the jews and denied the same rights as the jews in Palestine?

Here's an article by David Duke which explains how even amongst jews, the state of Israel forbids a lower class jew to marry a Cohen:

http://www.davidduke.com/index.php?p=271#more-271

It's amazing how these people have tricked everybody into thinking that they the jews are not racist, that they the jews are the victims, that they the jews are the persecuted and that they the jews are totally innocent of any crime or 'hate' which Dyshade seems obsessed with. Yet, the jewish tradition and religion incorporates an exclusive ideology based on race or blood lines if you like.

Modern day Christianity is a universal religion, however it can be debated that primitive christianity is Indo-European only. Judaism is the opoosite of Christianity i.e its a materialistic un-idealistic religion where this life is regarded greater than any after life, that why jews focus on - the aquisition of money. Therefore the jews dont see the point of creating things which will last, and hence the jewish dominance and subverson of our media, money etc - i.e. matrialistic things, check out who the Rothschilds are.

I'm not the best expert to consulte on the jewish religion, see David Duke who has studied them meticoulously and has writen several books:

http://www.davidduke.com/

Also Dr Alexander Jacob is a religious philosopher and he presents a discussion about the nature of the jewish religion, here he states "Americans are not jews, and Americans should not try to be jews"

The problem with you kids, is that you have been brought up in a hollywood world - i.e. basically brainwashed. Your value system is indoctrinated into you implicitly by the Hollywood movies. Who owns the major studios of Hollywood? no suprise - the jews. Hence you will defend the jews even against your own people because your value systems are all mixed up.

Listen to the interview by Dr Alexander Jacob, its very philosophical and intellectual so you will need to know your stuff:

http://www.davidduke.com/mp3/dukeradio1mar05.mp3

* 'Jew' derives from - Judea - a major tribe of the Hebrews.

* 'Hebrew' means - wanderer or in ancient times - brigand, mercenary.

* Your correct about Judaism it's a religous term, where jew is a racial term.

* Friend is not an idiot, Friend realises that America is the most powerful country in the world, and the jews have colonised America and even though they are only 2% of the population they run America, and its the jews who have designed the Iraq war and its the jews who have the stirred the trouble up and yet its thousands of Americans ( not jews ) who are dying, what for - the jews and Israel - not America.