In church last Sunday, the pastor read an email from an elderly lady saying she'd had to borrow money to meet a pledge for our building campaign. I'm a regular volunteer at the church, so I was able to grab one of the ministers and tell him I couldn't believe we'd feature a testimony that would give such a bad impression to those sensitive about the relationship between the Church & money. He didn't see a problem though b/c the woman had borrowed the money from her son.

The woman was dumb to make a pledge she couldn't keep and then to borrow instead of dropping out, but I can't believe no one involved in the preparation of that message didn't see a problem with the situation.

I got a personal call from the minister though, which freaked me out.

Rar! I hate what other people choose to do with their money! Rar!



Seriously, what is the problem here? I assume she's not going to starve and the church isn't spending the money on Ferraris.

Agreed. A grown woman over-pledges and borrows money to make her pledge? Her choice, man.

the real question here is not that she borrowed, but the fact that a false organization that receives outside funding would leach off of unwary persons. It sikens me but if anyone is
a) stupid enough to fall for the weadlings of christianity
b)mentally disabled
c)really really strange

well hten only a anc b get to me

Oh fucking hell...

A false organization? Perhaps the idea is false, but the organization is very real. Church tithes and donations often go to youth programs, outreach programs, and the like. You may not believe in what they preach, but the money is often used in very helpful ways.

Yeah. Outreach my white pasty butt: LINK

All the money collected only goes to support more preachers that abuse little boys in there congregations. fucking pervs
All religion is for weak minded people who can't cope with life!

Oh of course. Because some religious leaders abuse children they all do, right? Because some churches are guilty of unscrupulous decisions, they all are. Because some kids that wear black are insane terrorists, they all are.

Do you people even recognize the irony here?

"Don't judge me by the way I look. You don't know me."

"I'M AN INDIVIDUAL! DON'T LUMP ME IN WITH EVERYONE ELSE!."

Actually alot of funds collected by churches go to feeding homeless people, including children, and caretaking church properties.

Religion is not for weak minded individuals. Ghandi was not weak-minded. Abraham Lincoln was not weak-minded. George Washington was not weak-minded. Many individuals who professed a belief in certain organized religions were in no way weak-minded. You have fallen victim to stereotypical attitudes. There is much that is bad with many organized religions. Indeed this is quite true. But people are not weak-minded for having beliefs.

The question to be asked is why do I believe that there is a god. It seems that religion is a twisted faith in which manipulation of the mind to encourage love towards one person whilst pursuing hatred and death towards another.
How do you control masses of people without having to destroy them, make them believe in a greater good.
Allthrough the ages mankind has been brainwashed with religion in one guise or another.
To control their fears and also control thought. One person that is different can have an adverse affect on many.
Jesus spoke out and caused an adverse reaction causing the roman Empire to fight for their beliefs. In the end too many people had succumbed to the values of free thought and the roman emporer Constantine rolled over and became christian.
But was it actually free thought. No because they all followed 10 rules laid down by a spokesman of 'God'.
The Catholics in history have surpassed this by torturing and burning anyone that did not believe in 'God' and classing them as Heretics - Their only true crime was a free mind.
So the Catholic faith grew under total persecution of others.
As we are now under the extreme beliefs of Muslims who seem to accuse everybody of persecuting them when in reality we don't actual give a shit what creed, colour or religion they are. But given that they are so brainwashed they can not accept any other reason for aggression than its religion.
Religion has thrived on the weakness of mankind
When in danger giving salvation that there is another place greater than earth, When in hope giving strenght to overcome hurdles, but these are things that they need to manipulate minds in order in exist, because religion does not exist without mankind.
God's only live and die in the minds of mankind
When all is said and done there is to be only one belief that will not manipulate you and that is the belief in you

But the point is WHO CARES?

Whether or not god exists is hardly relevant to this argument. The point of this topic is that a church allowed an adult woman to honor her pledge by means she deemed necessary. It wouldn't matter if it was the Feed the Children fund. What Inky is questioning are the ethics behind accepting the money, given it's source.

Congrats, DamagedMind! You're the one millionth person on Darkforum to say everything that you just said! You win the official "You're Exactly Like at Least One Million Other People" award.

The lady used her money the way she wanted to. That's all I got.

Even in self-belief is the root for manipulation. You are manipulated through the television ads you watch and the magazines you read and the web-sites you visit. If you are against manipulation you may as well cease to exist.

This is blatantly false. People lie to themselves all the time, and it would be impossible to define yourself without knowledge of others and the world around you. Furthermore, if you lived without the teachings and ideals of others, you'd probably still be figuring out basic concepts and working on inventing multiplication- maybe.

Atheism was the most destructively dogmatic and intolerant religion of the 20th century. I don't think you can claim the moral high ground there any longer. People are capable of being petty, blind, stupid bugfucks for any or no god at all.

I could argue that one with you, but the difference would be so slim as to be mostly irrelevent.

Anything can be taken offensively. If you get offended because some old biddy made a stupid pledge, then you need to buck the fuck up.

You would have to be retarded to do that. The 20th centuries greatest evils were caused by atheistic state governments in Nazi Germany and Communist Russia/China/Cambodia. Where exactly are you going to come up with competing instances of genocide and brutality?

Seconded on Wicked. Some people get offended if you say "Bless you" after they sneeze. Some people are just looking for something to feel persecuted about. Get over it.

The church (any institution) will except monies from who ever whether the money is theirs, borrowed or stolen. They probably don't give a damn.

And the idea of the piece was not to promote the idea of No God, one god or any fucking alien belief. Sometimes belief in oneself can surpass anything that we have so far installed in our humanity, remember we are but animals (Some clever, so not so) The woman obviously felt pressure by what she believe to borrow money to honor her pledge,
Would you borrow money to pay a loan shark?
She probably felt that her soul was under threat from not paying her dues as you would if a loan shark threaten you physically.

The church has been wrong to pressure people into the belief that hell awaits any who wrong them just listen to preachers. If you are not strong minded you will worry.