For years upon years, the church has been a place of worship..... But are all you belivers in god really thinking about the bible? I don't know much about the bible and god but I do know that one of the ten commandments is 'Thou shalt not worship graven images'. (Or something like that.) The cross..... The alter......Both graven images, the church has had power over the people for years and as soon as a dead sea scroll turns up that was apparently written by Jesus himself, they call it a heratic scroll, why? Because it could colapse religion as we know it. I am currently digging for infomation on the heratic scroll, as soon as I find more about it, I will post what I have found here.... But if you believe in god, why break one of the ten commandments?

i've never really found anything satisfying in the structure of the church. to me, the extent of it only serves as a corporation. one that people can belong to and be governed over. perhaps small community meeting houses could be ignored for this, but here, parishes are large and involve whole families which both donate and participate widely within the church community. going to mass is no longer a time for worshipping a god that one both loves and fears, but a boring obligation to get parents off your back, to show that your children are good and perfect to your fellow church goers.

with the graven image - definately. same with all paintings of religious nature. centuries, paintings of this sort were painted to give people a symbol, something to focus their worship upon. sure, contridictory, but then again, what was the reasoning behind the commandment in the first place?

about the gospel of jesus or some writing of him, anyone see stigmata? oh the conspiracy! i love that movie

christians?

The ineptitude of the questions posed and subsequent replys never cease to amaze me. They are flashing, neon sigh that screams "continued educatuion is a MUST!!!!!"

You're an ignorant putz.


First of all, the Commandment is against worshipping idols. One the one hand, a symbol isn't an idol. On the other, no one worships a cross, or an altar, or even a crucifix or light-up dancing Jesus statue that plays "Bringing in the Sheaves" when you put a quarter in a slot.


My advice is to not base your criticisms on a lack of knowledge. I can name you the reasons I go to church, but none of them involve supplying power to evil old white European males.



Also, Jesus didn't write the Dead Sea Scrolls. Thank you, kindly be quiet.

umm i was using the word symbol as in a symbol not as a substitute for a graven image.

also with the idea that jesus didn't write the dss, fine but do you know that jesus didn't write anything? or left this earth without any trace but what his friends' word? we're just exploring the possibility here.

i used to go to church not because i was forced to, but to try and understand what it was about. maybe i was too young for it. but in all honesty, i found most of those there too young for it. is this what god wants? personally i'd find it more satsifying to know that those who didn't actually want to be there where doing something productive or charitable perhaps.

The church is simply somewhere for people to feel they belong.

The idea of religious images came about because it was easier to convert "heathens" to Christianity by pointing out the similarities between their religion and Christianity then bringing them over slowly, that's why in every country in the world Jesus looks different.

Also (just an extra titbit) the dates of Christian holidays coincide with Celtic Holidays because Christianity was wiped out in most of europe in the middle ages, the only place it remained was in Ireland where the missionaries had integrated the resident Celtic religion with Christianity.
When things calmed down in Europe missionaries were sent from Ireland to every major school and college in Europe to teach Religion and Latin to the populace

That's why Ireland is called the land of Saints and Scholars

Ignoroant huh? Well ignorance is someone who doesn't hear other peoples opinions and then makes judgement on them.



You see what I mean? I Stated that the heratic dead sea scroll what apparently written by jesus, it was apparently Jesus name written on the dead sea scroll. I didn't say all of them. But then again, how would you know that they all were not written by jesus? Thank you be quiet..... You ignorant putz.....

Questions followed by answers educate us, comments like this, don't, they just make us wonder what you are talking about.

You go to church and go around calling people names, interesting, you obviously aren't that religious then, maybe you don't worship the cross, but plently of people do and the crucifix is a graven image of God, God being Jesus. Homage is made to this graven image, it is gem-studded and valuble in a roseary bead format. Why encrust it with gems if it is merely a 'symbol' or a tool?

How much do these old relics sell for these days? A lot thats what. Some people use the crucifix to help them win at gambling for goodness sake, and you are telling us it is not worshipped?

It was also never said that you go to church with the intention of suppling power to the people who run the church, but you already are in your post, think about it. 'Also, Jesus didn't write the Dead Sea Scrolls. Thank you, kindly be quiet.' A deny without any backing followed with 'be quiet', the same attitude the church has on the subject. Of course you are right, Jesus did not write the dead sea scrolls, because by definition, according to the church you are empowering, that particular piece of parchment isn't a dead sea scroll.

Well, seems your great enough to post a comment like that so why don't you tell everyone your unlimited knowledge of the dead sea scrolls ..... You say I need further educating, so why don't you educate me on it then? Come on, it seems that to post such a high and mighty comment like that, you must have more knowledge on the subject..... Same as Dark Messiah. You ahould really tell me what you know on the subject before writing such....Final comments..... Like I said before, when I find more infomation on that particular scroll, I will post what I have found. Don't you people ever take note of what others are saying?

E-d-u-c-a-t-i-o-n= education, one u only. I know this is rich coming from one of the worst spellers here but I havent harped on about the intelligence level here.

Actually it is look in the Dictinary under Idol. Idol=Religious symbol used to depict a god and/or focus worship.

The second you think or say this is the image(or representation) of my god, you worship it. I have seen ppl stand before crosses and pray, ppl look at statues for hope, have a sense that the statues are "holy" that the cross is "holy" ....is that not w-o-r-s-h-i-p.



Look whos talking. You are a long way off from proving your knowledge as well.


How do you know? Religous assuption aside. Are you say a) Jesus cant write or b) that after a life time of trying to help ppl that he decided that he would just go and let them screw themselves over? If I was Jesus I would write something down too, hoping that someone would gain some form of benefit from it. This does not prove anything but it says something about your willingness to dismiss an idea out of hand.

Thinking about the dead sea scrolls don't they also have a related copy called the St Tomas scrolls?

Thank you Ministry Of Sin for putting that forward. Everytime I try to explain something I get called ignorant but what you have posted makes alot of sense.

The dead sea scroll apparently written by Jesus is supposed to state that God is everywhere so there is no point in going to church or listening to vicars or being baptized or being a religious nutter. Just think of him. And by doing so, god will be part of your life. It apparently says there is no point in churches and places of worship and the whole bread and wine thing. Thats why the church has denyed all knowledge of the scroll. It would colapse the whole power the church has over people if the church accepted it. Like I said, church is nothing but power. The church causes wars, and people still are brainwashed into thinking that their religion is the right religion. Bluntly, the scroll is supposed to exist for us not to base a belief on a belief structure and that is apparently the word of god though Jesus.

Lenina, Welcome . Oh it's that! I thought so. Makes perfect sense to me, I have been thinking something along those lines for years, but with my own twist of course.

Funny you should say that, I had my own suspitions myself for years. The thing is, if there was a god, would he really want people to gather into a big room and listen to some preacher tell them what sinners they are? I mean, nobody can say that theirs is the right religion anyway so why bother to go to church when people have split into different religious groups? The church has been deciving people for thousands of years. Innocent women and children were tortured and killed because these religious men thought them to be witches..... Is that what god would want if he were real? The church tell people what they want to hear, as a result, people become ignorant to what they belive, people would sell the clothes off their backs to fund their congrigation and that gives the church power..... I just wish I could get hold of some text from the heritic scroll to show you.... I think it will be a most enlightening piece of text to read don't you think?

its strange that this argument has come up again..... I had the same one with Sam in one of his long threads..... a Church is in and of itself a graven image..... it is called a House Of Worship.... any idol or image placed upon an altar is automatically venerated/worshipped..... people light candles before the Virgin Mary or even other Saints and pray to them for support.... the second or third(according to whichever version of the bible you are an adherent of??) commandment forbids this as a cardinal sin... yet it is committed every day...... I have to disagree with you here DM..... The Graven Image and its worship is a highly volatile subject with any sect of Christians....

Your body is the temple...... your soul is the divine....

flesh rots...... energy merely changes..... it never dissipates

the writing of jesus that you mentioned lenina, is interesting. i've only heard about it in movies and considered the possibility, but if it were true surely someone would have penetrated the walls of security and come out with the truth by now?

just out of curiousity, who did in fact write the dead sea scrolls? surely it wouldn't be anyone we *know* but a group of scholars and scribes made to record stories that had been handed down?

Amen to that. And I would also like to add for those who are attacking the church.....

"Let he who has not Sinned throw the first Stone."
--Jesus Christ