why should we have to believe in something that we can't see with are own eyes? to me seeing is believing. i don't believe that there is such a thing as god or satan. for one thing i know that people have wild imagination's and when they see an immage. they would creat god or satan as a statue. what if there immages are wrong and that it is not what god and satan really look like. also i think both bibles are just make believe stories that regular people like you and i have written. also i have never read any of god or satans bible. but i don't know. what do you think?

Some people have to make up something to satisfy their fear of the unknown... Some do it on a more severe level than others. And a few thousand years ago, some comic genius made up the bible and all the crud to go with it and it became a bestseller. But what i find funny is that people created religion because of their curiosity with the universe and all that exist within it... And by inventing religion and beliefs, it caused there curiosity to go "SPLUNK!" The first thing that satisfied their "open minds" caused them to be closed-minded chodes with no imagination.

You see, the way I do it... I don't have beliefs, I have "ideas". When I explain my "beliefs" to people, I use that word because they'll understand it better than if I said "My ideas are that there is a God that exist but God simply created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation." The simple fact that I said "idea" instead of "belief" would throw the person off completely. Having "ideas" is like having a hypothesis... If one idea gets stamped out for some reason or a better one comes along then I'll assume that idea over the previous one. If I were to have a belief like say christians or some other very close-minded religion... I would have a dinosaur, who was brought to life by technological advancements in DNA and cloning, SHIT right on top of my head and I'd say "Oh, that's not a dinosaur! Although I'm covered in dino-poo and that massive beast just bit my arm off I still believe that it's an illusion that SATAN created in order for me to get distracted from following the Christian faith!"

Or say we make contact with a peaceful alien race... Anyone of some die-hard faith would believe it's the result of some demon in their belief that's trying to enslave them or some other made-up bullshit excuse because THEY ARE AFRAID OF THE TRUTH AND CHANGE.

OH!... So back to the point... People have invented religion to satisfy their fear of the unknown... but in the end, all it's done is create more problems because their mind has been satisfied and they won't accept anything else no matter how obvious.
:)

Some people have to make up something to satisfy their fear of the unknown... Some do it on a more severe level than others. And a few thousand years ago, some comic genius made up the bible and all the crud to go with it and it became a bestseller. But what i find funny is that people created religion because of their curiosity with the universe and all that exist within it... And by inventing religion and beliefs, it caused there curiosity to go "SPLUNK!" The first thing that satisfied their "open minds" caused them to be closed-minded chodes with no imagination.

You see, the way I do it... I don't have beliefs, I have "ideas". When I explain my "beliefs" to people, I use that word because they'll understand it better than if I said "My ideas are that there is a God that exist but God simply created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation." The simple fact that I said "idea" instead of "belief" would throw the person off completely. Having "ideas" is like having a hypothesis... If one idea gets stamped out for some reason or a better one comes along then I'll assume that idea over the previous one. If I were to have a belief like say christians or some other very close-minded religion... I would have a dinosaur, who was brought to life by technological advancements in DNA and cloning, SHIT right on top of my head and I'd say "Oh, that's not a dinosaur! Although I'm covered in dino-poo and that massive beast just bit my arm off I still believe that it's an illusion that SATAN created in order for me to get distracted from following the Christian faith!"

Or say we make contact with a peaceful alien race... Anyone of some die-hard faith would believe it's the result of some demon in their belief that's trying to enslave them or some other made-up bullshit excuse because THEY ARE AFRAID OF THE TRUTH AND CHANGE.

OH!... So back to the point... People have invented religion to satisfy their fear of the unknown... but in the end, all it's done is create more problems because their mind has been satisfied and they won't accept anything else no matter how obvious.
:)

but since they have created something to satisfy there own fear. doesn't that make people seem to be even more stupid and idotic to believe and celebraite something that isn't even there to begin with? to me i seem to think so. because i don't believe that there is such a thing as religion. i was never taught religion. i also don't know anything about religion. i just think that all of this is just make believe and that someone out there has a hudge imagination on creating such things as this. but as you have said we all need to do things to satisfy are own fears of the unknown even though it can makes us look like dumbasses.

but since they have created something to satisfy there own fear, doesn't that make people seem to be even more stupid and idotic to believe and celebraite something that isn't even there to begin with? to me i seem to think so.

I think so too.

i also don't know anything about religion. i just think that all of this is just make believe and that someone out there has a huge imagination on creating such things as this. but as you have said we all need to do things to satisfy are own fears of the unknown even though it can makes us look like dumbasses.

There's ways to satisfy our fears without looking stupid. Like I was saying, I have ideas. I keep an open-mind, not a die-hard faith despite obvious contradictions to that faith.

Personally, I don't believe in what I do because of "fears". I believe in what I do because it seems like the most logical explanation to what we don't know, and I have a desire to know what's out there... not a fear. I'm Deist, which is by definition "the belief in a God that exist but God simply created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation."

But you see, I don't refer to God as ONLY a "deity". What I refer to as "God" is whatever created the universe... Which could be the Big Bang, an actual creation of a Deity, an atomic beer fart, or the result of some other extra-universal cause. We are here aren't we? Something had to create a beginning which eventually led up to what is in the universe including us, right? For every action, there is a reaction, yes? For every effect, there is a cause, right? So whatever that "creator" is, I don't know the name or what the hell it is, but I know it had to be something, so I believe in it.

I don't celebrate my beliefs, and I don't preach them blindly. I keep an open-mind as to the possibilities. Until God actually comes down and slaps me in the face with a bible, I'm not going to believe it cause there is just too little going for it, and a shit-load going against it. To me, the Bible and that God is just as real as the stories and gods of Greek Mythology.

I believe in electrons and Mars -- but I've never personally seen either...

who said you have to believe in such? believe in what you wish to.

I believe in electrons and Mars -- but I've never personally seen either...

You have never seen that little blinking red light way up in the sky????

it looks like a very bright red star.... and should be very easy to view right now as it is as close as it gets to earth.......

i disagree making the assumption that people who believe are stupid and idiodic. I'm a proud and happy believer. I have more faith that the entities walking among us; that most can not, or do not see, than human beings. I've never had a spirit or essence preach hate and intolerance.

if something a person believes brings them peace, happiness and a general...life is good...attitude, then why critisize?

if more people would believe, maybe there'd be less horror in the world...

how can one believe there is a beign that can create an entire universe, yet believe in nothing else based on an "i don't see it" attitude. You may not see it, but others do. Maybe skeptics have forgotten how to see the little things in life...real or not.

and why is the assumption it's god, just because you can't see, doesn't mean it's not real, christianity may have the market cornered, but their grasp is slipping.

who said you have to believe in such? believe in what you wish to.

i like what masochist has to say...if one wishes not to believe, then don't believe. It's this wonderful thing called difference, dont' insult the intelligence and mind of those who do. Perhaps they see something incorrect in the thinking of those who can't believe...what happened in their life to take belief away?

i disagree making the assumption that people who believe are stupid and idiodic. I'm a proud and happy believer. I have more faith that the entities walking among us; that most can not, or do not see, than human beings. I've never had a spirit or essence preach hate and intolerance.

You are correct, just because someone believes in something without any evidence does not mean they are stupid-it means they believe something without any evidence.

if something a person believes brings them peace, happiness and a general...life is good...attitude, then why critisize?

Again, I agree, you only live one time, might as well live how you want to live.

if more people would believe, maybe there'd be less horror in the world...

I'll have to disagree with you there, belief in something with no evidence has actually caused a great number of horrors throughout the world. Personally I think that if people were more skeptical and more aware of their actions, their would be less horror in the world.

how can one believe there is a beign that can create an entire universe, yet believe in nothing else based on an "i don't see it" attitude. You may not see it, but others do. Maybe skeptics have forgotten how to see the little things in life...real or not.

I don't know, I don't believe in such a being. I would think tradition, wishful thinking, and perhaps personal experiences would lead one to give credence toward a creator.

I don't think you have a proper view of skeptics. To be a skeptic does not mean you deny everything you come across. It means that you are open minded towards the evidence presented to you-as opposed to being closeminded and accepting what you are told, with no evidence.

and why is the assumption it's god, just because you can't see, doesn't mean it's not real, christianity may have the market cornered, but their grasp is slipping.

I agree, once again.

one thing that i can't stand is being told that my beliefs are *wrong* when things cannot be proven, why are some people so adamant that THEY are right?

i don't tell them what to believe, but i do question people's faith. it's not out of disrepect but to learn and maybe to get them to actually question their own faiths. an answer like "god exists because i KNOW he does" isn't satisfactory to get me to believe too.

I'll have to disagree with you there, belief in something with no evidence has actually caused a great number of horrors throughout the world. Personally I think that if people were more skeptical and more aware of their actions, their would be less horror in the world..

skeptical or not, i don't think that has much to do with a persons actions, i just find most who believe in a greater good, tend to aspire for the greater good...not many people seem to prefer that path in my opinion.

I don't think you have a proper view of skeptics. To be a skeptic does not mean you deny everything you come across. It means that you are open minded towards the evidence presented to you-as opposed to being closeminded and accepting what you are told, with no evidence.

that may be, i've never been to skeptical...however some of my greatest influences have been skeptical. i find it refreshing when they are able to discuss their opinions without criticising or trying to tell me i'm wrong for believing in what i do...when they offer me more than "there's no proof". I'm sure skeptics do believe in something, it may not be supernatural, but the sun does rise every morning, even if you can't see it :bat:

Ultimately i guess it comes down to the person...skeptical or a believer, it's how you convey your thoughts on the subject. Some just convey better than others. :D

skeptical or not, i don't think that has much to do with a persons actions, i just find most who believe in a greater good, tend to aspire for the greater good...not many people seem to prefer that path in my opinion.

I have the feeling we are going to get into "true scotsman fallacies" here, but the 'greater good' has also led to persecution, hangings, the inquisition, supression of science, the denial of human rights, beatings, etc.

The problem being the idea of a greater good. The idea of one is simple-it's getting everyone to agree that is difficult.

that may be, i've never been to skeptical...however some of my greatest influences have been skeptical. i find it refreshing when they are able to discuss their opinions without criticising or trying to tell me i'm wrong for believing in what i do...when they offer me more than "there's no proof". I'm sure skeptics do believe in something, it may not be supernatural, but the sun does rise every morning, even if you can't see it :bat:

The thing is this: Many times, especially in discussions, one party feels like they have to defend their beliefs. The skeptic wants to have reasons for the believer's beliefs, because it doesn't seem rational to them (because their isn't any evidence). On a discussion board the tendency is to discuss ideas, in an effort to get someone to agree with one's own ideas. This naturally leads to a conflict between the person who believes on faith and the person who wants evidence.

Ultimately i guess it comes down to the person...skeptical or a believer, it's how you convey your thoughts on the subject. Some just convey better than others. :D

Agreed.

I have the feeling we are going to get into "true scotsman fallacies" here, but the 'greater good' has also led to persecution, hangings, the inquisition, supression of science, the denial of human rights, beatings, etc.

The problem being the idea of a greater good. The idea of one is simple-it's getting everyone to agree that is difficult.
.

true scotsman fallacies? i've never heard that comparison (but i do work with a delightful scotsman) :D

i imagine it would depend on the definition of the greater good...your examples while being horribly acurate realities of this world, all sound early christian or hate based..again not a fault with aspiring to be a good person or believing in a greater good, but the people using those ideals to gain power over others.

"greater good" in my use is that everyone is equal, everyone deserves a chance to be and live as they wish, to be willing to help the less fortunate...if they are meant to live, they'll live, i don't have the knowledge to know what's right for every one. It's seeing a starving man on the street, i'm the one that gives him what change i have...he needs it more...while reason(or my skeptical nature) warns it could be a proffessional panhandler that make hundreds of dollars a day, maybe it's just a down on their luck person that needs a little kindness. for me it's just being a good person!

i guess that's what happens when you get an idealistic believer...i found peace and an ability to accept myself, weaknesses and all...just believing.

if i could have one wish, it would be that every one could be happy...sadly i don't think the average person existing today has the capabilities to comprehend the "greater good" or find happiness. They're still trying to live up to another persons standards, unable to find peace with themselves, dwelling on the negative, rather than seeking out the positives in life and existance. Once all of humanity figures it out...then a utopian society will be possible..that's a greater good goal...in my opinon. A world where everyone has what they need, and want for nothing, spiritually or materialistically.

in what context are you using it?

Sorry, I didn't mean to refer to believers as "stupid". I was too quick with my words. I think what I meant was that someone who has a faith like that which causes them to be close-minded about everything else, to me... is being stupid.

Does that make sense? Sometimes I can't get what's in my head out written out the way I'd like to.

yes it does make sense, i understand that sentiment, and it irks me also...they give believers a bad name, close others to what they may have to share, and are generally annoying in their "you're wrong and i'm right" attitude.

religion like most other apects in life...you get more flies with honey than vinegar(or is it bees)

so you people are saying that there is a possibillity that there is such a thing as god or satan. but we really don't have to see them in order to believe in them. but it is true that there is alot of good and evil going on around the world. but that doesn't mean the good and evil is meaning god or satan. i mean take satan him self as an example. if he were to be here on earth and yet everyone know's that he looks like a beast. come on a beast living here on earth. i don't see how that could happen. i guess i see things a little differently then other people. i'm not saying that it is a bad thing to believe in these things. its just i don't know i'm curious about it. but like this once girl has said we could believe in what ever we wish to believe in. i think this is what i believe in. i believe that there is nothing there. but yet there is the supernatural.

I've got a hypothesis...

Cows and Chickens are the Supreme Beings, and we're killin' em all for lunch at KFC and Burger King. That's why there is war... that is why there is hate... pain... suffering...

Eating tofu burgers for the rest of our days may blow dogs for quarters, but it'll save us from another World War.
:)

so you people are saying that there is a possibillity that there is such a thing as god or satan. but we really don't have to see them in order to believe in them. but it is true that there is alot of good and evil going on around the world. but that doesn't mean the good and evil is meaning god or satan. i mean take satan him self as an example. if he were to be here on earth and yet everyone know's that he looks like a beast. come on a beast living here on earth. i don't see how that could happen. i guess i see things a little differently then other people. i'm not saying that it is a bad thing to believe in these things. its just i don't know i'm curious about it. but like this once girl has said we could believe in what ever we wish to believe in. i think this is what i believe in. i believe that there is nothing there. but yet there is the supernatural.

i beleive everything is possible, just because i can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It doesn't always have to be "god and satan" they are simply christianized versions of energies that have been around since...i guess the beginning...it's comes down to what you believe, what you decide to call those energies(supernatural is a good term)and how you deal with your belief...i don't think anyone knows for sure what's out there, but those who believe know something is.

I've got a hypothesis...

Cows and Chickens are the Supreme Beings, and we're killin' em all for lunch at KFC and Burger King. That's why there is war... that is why there is hate... pain... suffering...

Eating tofu burgers for the rest of our days may blow dogs for quarters, but it'll save us from another World War.
:)


or elimintating all government, disabling all weapons of mass destruction and letting the natural order of things come to be. :D

Hehe, that'd work too. :)