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03-26-03

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asd, i think you are assuming that we can control our own minds. but i think the majority of us don't try to control any mind at all.
I wasn't assuming this at all. I stated clearly in my conclusion that either one or both of the two premisses, that the world and past exist in the mind, and that the mind is controllable, must be false.

Quote:
also, i don't think it's obvious that you can't change your surroundings with an act of will. in fact, i think it's obvious that you can. i am changing my environment as i write. the past and the present may exist only in the mind and still be subject limitations.
You've subtly changed what I posted. I said act of mind, not act of will. The act of writing does not exist solely in the mind, but is carried out via the body.

There are two phenomena concerned here: thoughts which are generated solely in the mind and stimuli which are received by the sensory organs and become thoughts. The latter is what we refer to as the "external world." But if the "external world" actually exists in the mind, the separation between the two an illusion, and the mind controllable, then I should have the same power over the "external world" as I do any solely mentally generated thought. For example, it is easy for me to imagine an object transforming into something else, such as a lamp into a frog. I happen to sense such a lamp in my living room; however, in no possible way known to me can I sense that lamp turning into a frog. So I can only conclude that either that lamp exists independently of my mind, or I cannot control my mind to the point where I can manipulate my perceptions or both.
  
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