Quote:
Originally Posted by -Wry- Dyshade, when you said, and I quote, "No one was forced to join the Hitler Youth, NO ONE!!", you are utterly wrong. Young Ratzinger was enrolled into Hitler's Youth because, as of 1939, it was required that all 14 year old males living in Germany do this. Additionally, he was well on his way to becoming a priest before that happened. AND, his father hated the Nazis, because their beliefs were against the Catholic faith. What's more, Ratzinger was a reluctant member, and often missed meetings of Hitler's Youth.
Erm, the pope during WWII wasn't a Nazi... and the Church didn't back Nazism. Vatican State made a pact with Germany to not be invaded, like Russia did. Oh, and the Axis bombed Rome a bit too. Connect the dots, please.
Oh, and, we don't take the word of the Pope as God's. He is a servant of God, sheparding over the Church on Earth in the Lamb's stead. Period.
So, please, cease your mindless hostilities against the Church. |
Wrong wrong and wrong. And I am not hostile against the catholic Church. My wife is Catholic thank you

I just do not believe in misdirection or in dishonesty. Both of which have been assets of the Church in the past and present.
You see me as hostile only because I ask questions and doubt rather than follow teachings that inspire that doubt.
I actually think that everyone deserves religious choice BUT should never be allowed to endanger another's religious choice.
The fact remains that Ratzinger and his family were loyal Nazis during the war. That he might not be a Nazi now is irrelevant. He WAS one, and that is my point. If he was deadset against Nazi rule he and his family would have gone down swinging, like hundreds of other families during WW2. Instead they stood by and did nothing, even participated, in the Nazi war machine.
Attending Hitler Youth classes was made compulsory in 1939 due to a lot of youths not attending, it was still not compulsory to join however. And even when it was made compulsory to attend almost all classes did not check that those enrolled were attending. Those that did did so out of patriotic duty. No fault in that nor is it any fault that Ratzinger and his family were patriotic/// and they were indeed until the last few months of the war in which the young Ratzinger decided to desert his Infantry Division.
""The Fourth Lateran Council of 1215 set up the Inquisition along with enforcement of Jews wearing a yellow spot on their clothes and a horned cap (
pileum cornutum) to mark them as the murderers of Christ and to remind them of their descent from the devil""
Hitler got his idea for marking Jews from the catholic church
""After
Kristallnacht (where Nazis broke Jewish store windows and had synagogues burned) there issued not a single word of condemnation from the Vatican, the German Church hierarchy, or from Pacelli. Yet in an encyclical on anti-Semitism, titled
Humani generis unitas (The Unity of the Human Race) by Pope Pius XI, a section claims that the Jews were responsible for their own fate. God had chosen them to make way for Christ's redemption but they denied him and killed him. And now, "Blinded by their dream of worldly gain and material success," they had deserved the "worldly and spiritual ruin" that they had brought down upon themselves. [Cornwell, p. 191] Cardinal Theodor Innitzer, archbishop of Vienna warmly received Hitler in Vienna after his triumphal march through the capital where he expressed public satisfaction with Hitler's regime. [Cornwell, p. 201] Meanwhile, Cardinal Bertram sent Hitler an effusive telegram, published on October 2 in the Nazi newspaper
Volkischer Beobachter, "The great deed of safeguarding peace among the nations moves the German episcopate acting in the name of the Catholics of all the German dioceses, respectfully to extend congratulations and thanks and to order a festive ringing of bells on Sunday." [Cornwell, p. 202]""
You will note that the Church did indeed back the Nazi Regime. Do not try to sway me with Church propaganda and rewritten accounts of WW2.
""Pacelli became a crowned Pope on March 12, 1939 (Pius XII). The following month on April 20, 1939, at Pacelli's express wish, Archbishop Orsenigo, the nuncio in Berlin, opened a gala reception for Hitler's fiftieth birthday. The birthday greetings thus initiated by Pacelli immediately became a tradition; each April 20 during the few years left to Hitler and his Reich, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin would send "warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany," to which he added "fervent prayers which the Catholics in Germany are sending to heaven on their altars." [Cornwell, p. 209] By this time Pacelli could call on the loyalty and devotion of a half-billion people, of which half the populations of Hitler's new Reich had become Catholics, including a quarter of the SS. At this time bishops, clergy, religious, and faithful had bound themselves to the Pope, and by his own self estimation, served as the supreme arbiter of moral values on earth. [Cornwell, p. 215]""
So please as I stated look outside the box and you will find that regardless of the Church's present doctrines they were not all bright and shiny in the past.
Do not take my criticism of the church as any rebuke of you or your beliefs either, in criticizing the church I am not attempting to insult you. But please continue to belittle my claims and delegate me to the level of a frothing madmen, none of that changes anything
