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Originally Posted by turak  sigh.... you are mistaken. you do not know how mistaken you are.
Even if I spell it out for you: you will never accept the simple truth. |
turak, spelling out the simple truth is not enough to make me accept it. i need to understand why it's true, what makes it true.
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Originally Posted by turak You have this notion that all which makes you different from any other animal is abstraction. You have this revulsion and scorn of other animals: that divorces you from allother living things on this earth. |
i don't hate other animals for not having our powers of abstractions. i don't hate what is inferior to me; that would be a contradiction. i look for the positive in everything, and i know animals are capable of some abstraction. human beings are just another kind of animal. my abstraction does not divorce me from reality but makes reality richer for me. it takes the physical world and makes of it something more inside myself.
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Originally Posted by turak If you lived without abstraction: you would not cease to exist as a human.
On the contrary: you would become MORE human than you are now.
Abstraction does not makes you human. Abstraction dehumanizes you. It turns you into an unfeeling machine. |
i disagree with this. i feel that abstraction is what makes life what it is. matter with abstraction is life. disorder with abstraction is order. abstraction takes what is evil and makes it good.
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Originally Posted by turak Abstraction is a mental tool. It is a tool used by your tool-brain. It was developed by our ancestors using tools... until we began using our brains like tools.
Put it this way: if you had no tools: what is left of you? All that is left is your humanity... that is, if you had any to begin with. If you did not have any humanity to begin with: after all your tools are stripped from you: you would become a naked ape screaming in fear not knowing who you are.
If you had some humanity after all your tools were stripped from you: you would find that the only things you had left are: in other words: if you were positive insread of negative:
Honesty, Courage, Love, a sense of Fun, and a Sense of Pure Wonder.
Which could fill your entire life with happiness.
But if you are negative, if your negative self is stronger than your psitive attributes: then the only things you would be left with are:
Fear: hate: envy: jeaalousy: greed: cunning: deciet: weakness: lying: hypocrisy: etc, etc... whoch would turn your existence into a living hell. |
i think that emotions are abstractions, too. not only is thought an abstraction; love is too. so is hatred, so is greed, so is courage. abstraction is what gives meaning to an otherwise meaningless existence.
i would lose all thought and emotion, were i to lose my abstraction, and would be no better or worse than a stone. free will is an abstraction. free will makes being good different from being bad.
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Originally Posted by turak since you have already been programmed by the negative culture you have been raised in, to become almost completely negative: the idea of having all of your abstraction stripped away from you is unthinjable got you.
What you call 'abstraction' is one of the most powerful mental tools you have that insulates you from the world and the universe and yourself. Take away this safety, this insulation... and you become a screaming naked baby. Why?
Sigh..... because when you were born. Your parents and your family never let you grow up in Nature. They kept you swaddled amd insulated and overprotected from all living things and all life. You grew up inside a cocoon of artificial safety. You never experienced the joy and the fun and the wonder of living outside in Nature without any restrictions. Living free, and happy, and healthy: without fear or heate or all the other things that were taught you inside the coccon of your artificial environment. |
i would become a screaming naked baby without abstraction. i don't see how being in touch with nature would change any of that.
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Originally Posted by turak I have no hope for you. I do not expect you to understand anything I tell you. If you ever become healthy enough to learn how to have fun outdoors. if you ever do something like go camping outdoors long enough to get used to it, and overcome your revulsion for nature and the outer universe. Then you might begin to understand that human beings were never designed to live inside artificial shells called houses. |
as i've said, abstraction makes me appreciate nature more. not for what it really is but for what i make of it.
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Originally Posted by turak Civilized abstraction is only 10,000 years old. Your ancestors lived without it for millions of years. You discount millions of years of wisdom and truth because you have an unspoken assumption and belief that all civilization is better than Nature. |
i do think subjective abstraction is an improvement on objective nature since the former falls more in line with my theory on subjectivism. if we each interpret nature in our own way, and make our own personal abstractions regarding it, we'll be happier. i think truth is relative, since to be right or wrong is an abstraction anyway. in nature, nothing is wrong.
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Originally Posted by turak But... if ever compare the two different ways of living: you will be shocked.
But you never will. You will stay inside your abstract cocoon: unable to imagine life without it. |
i am near certain that life without abstraction would not be worth living. i have considered it and this is my conclusion.
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Originally Posted by turak Put it this way: for you, all that exists for you, are abstract images on a 2-dimensional screen.
In case you do not know: outside of your 2-dimensional abstractions: there is a 3-dimensional Universe that is not abstract. And it is infinitely more interesting and more complex, and more worthy of exploring than any 2-dimensional abstraction.
You have a choice: either the fantasy of non-existent 2-dimensional abstraction: or the actual 3-dimensional Universe outside you, and inside you: that does actually exist and is not abstract.
I could go on. but what is the point? |
2-dimensional abstraction helps us understand and appreciate 3-dimensional reality. abstraction helps us like reality.