I understand your points, and I'm going to have to agree with you about Plato. I'm not sure about your reasons for not liking him, but in my opinion utopias are for suckers. Also, when it comes down to it he just seems like a self-righteous sophist. Only he never had to admit it to himself, because he made a point of using Socrates as the main character in his books. Not that I don't have some admiration for the skill of manipulators, but... well you get what I'm driving at.