oh my....you're too cute...

first off, you just basically said everything i said.....what one considers as worthy of being called "art" may be subjective....i agree with you, you agree with me....good, let's move on.....but that doesn't mean ALL ART IS subjective......you're twisting two different concepts to say the same thing....

let's start with the basics, shall we? what modes of expression are worthy of bein' labeled as art-forms?

you have music, painting, drawing, photography, video, writing, dance, etc. etc. etc.......i think we can all agree that these modes of expression are worthy of bein' labeled as art-forms

nonetheless, you have other modes of expression which can also be labeled as art-forms.....prose writing, mathematics, science, philosophy, chess, the lil' puerto-rican woman who paints your finger nails......

now, whether or not you include the latter as bein' labeled as art-forms is purely subjective......NONETHELESS, if someone believes them to be an art-form, they have that right.....it is a mode of expression, it requires technique and understanding, and itz something that can be admired by on-lookers.......therefore, whether or not YOU m'dear consider it art is purely subjective to your thoughts, but that doesn't mean they're not worthy of bein' labeled as an art-form......thus, since math is indeed worthy of bein' labeled an art-form (whether or not you think it is), it must be considered within the philosophical discussion of "ALL ART IS SUBJECTIVE"

now we turn to the modes themselves......is painting, music, drawing, photography, etc. etc. etc. all subjective? well there's a very good argument and justification that yes it is subjective.......is math subjective? absolutely not......is prose subjective? absolutely not......thus, you're theory that "ALL ART IS SUBJECTIVE" is flawed in itz logic.....it doesn't matter how you try to refute it, you can go on and on and on about it, but the bottom line is that no matter what you or i or a third-party might consider what is and what is not worthy of bein' labeled as art should not limit the scope of what could be labeled as art.......and are you so ignorantly willing to accept that there is no mode of expression that cannot be purely objective?

secondly, to go a lil' more in depth, what is the aim of art? of any mode of expression for that matter? to create some sort of feeling or thought.....yes? is that not what all art aims to do? it wants to make you laugh, it wants to make you cry, smile, be pissed, disgusted, angry....it also wants you to ask yourself: is this art? that is objective....that is art's objective....period....thus, one could also argue "ART ISN'T SUBJECTIVE" based on this idea, but then that's more of "symantic" argument now isn't it? but then again, this is philosophy.....

now, you say you studied this before, and that you've studied some philosophy before.....this made me laugh somewhat simply because you stated:

i don't know what you were tryin' to say with that.....darlin', "aestheticism" isn't proof positive of my position, "aestheticism" IS the philosophy of art......much like "existentialism" is the philosophy of the self/being.....much like the "Problem of Evil" is the philosophy of, well evil....much like "theology" is religious philosophy....much like "dualism" is the philosophy of metaphysics and physics.....yaddah, yaddah, yaddah.....it's just a "title" for a type of philosophy....

what we're discussin' is "aestheticism" darlin'......itz the philosophy of art....your philosophy on art is "ALL ART IS SUBJECTIVE".........but you have yet to provide sound logic darlin'......you just came in and said "ALL ART IS SUBJECTIVE".....that ain't gonna cut-it here....certainly not with me.....if you want to say "ALL ART IS SUBJECTIVE" then by all means, please provide a justification......you have yet to provide a justification......

now, i'm not saying that my justification is "proof positive," but until you can provide a justification for "ALL ART IS SUBJECTIVE" while taking the time to consider the possibility of what modes of expression can be justly labeled as an art-from (and you seem to be in agreement with me, since you claim that although you yourself don't view math as an art-form, doesn't mean that you don't think math can't be justly labeled as an art-form), and also concern yourself with objective goal of art, then we'll get somewhere.......as it stands, my justification that "ALL ART ISN'T SUBJECTIVE" is logically sound at this present time....doesn't mean it's valid......thatz a whole different realm of logic altogether....though i'd be willing to bet that there's more validy for "ALL ART ISN'T SUBJECTIVE" than "ALL ART IS SUBJECTIVE".....

but, to sum up, i just wanna say that:

1. i am a philosopher and this is my passion...i love to discuss philosophy, but philosophy isn't a "belief" m'dear....it is very much so a "science".....many who don't truly know what philosophy is fail to realize this.....it's a mode of science that incorporates abstract thoughts and symantics to arrive to a logically valid and sound justification....or as best as it can.....which is exactly what science does, except science incorporates arbitrary facts to arrive to a logically valid and sound justification.........

2. welcome to DF and welcome to the philosophy section......most of us here spend a lot of time understanding philosophy.....please feel free to join it at anytime, but when you're going to make a claim, please give some sort of justification.......i mean, many come in here and don't, and that's just aggravating and belittles us......this is philosophy, this isn't Joe-Schmo arguin' on the street corner

3. if in anyway i have offended you or belittled you, i sincerely apologize....that is not my intention......my intention is solely to make you think......to make you understand just a lil' bit more about what philosophy truely is......i do not claim to be all-knowing or the perfect philosopher by any means.....99% of the time i just use philosophical arguments and justifications to help others further their arguments and justifications.....believe what you want, but don't confuse belief with philosophy.....it is a science and there's a lot that goes into it......