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Originally Posted by sixxx(sic)six FACT: you are not correct and you obviously know nothing of aestheticism....so shhh |
Surely you jest? If you wish to lay your whole argument in the lap of a philosophical idea, I reserve the right to dismiss aestheticism as you have me here with your silly "shhh." I also reserve the right to call what you seem to have labeled as proof positive of your position (i.e., aestheticism) as "pure crap." There, now I've dismissed you as arrogantly as you have me. That was easy enough.
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not to go off on some tanget about this or that and all the philosophical concepts pertaining to art, i'll end this real briefly....Jean-Paul Sartre in his "Essays In Existentialism" had a rather intriguing idea pertaining to "objective" vs' "subjective" which is really what existentialism is, and art is also a nice lil' tie in with existentialism (Nietzsche himself, one of the key players in existentialism, was absolutely obsessed with aestheticism..."The Birth of Tragedy"....very interesting essay pertaining to "art" and greeks....i suggest you read it)....anywho, i'm going on a rant.....ALL art is subjective?........well, not to point out every illogical justification behind this, i'll just give a brief example....do you consider "writing" as art? well i sure as hell do.....and as such, i consider "prose" writing also as a form of art....now you tell me how "prose" can be anything but objective if indeed it is prose....in other words, to give an example, you read an "owners manual" for a stereo.....how is that subjective? what other meaning can be derived other than "connect the A wire to the A slot"?????......this is objective....this is a mere example of a type of prose....not the best analogy, but an example nontheless...prose, which is art, is not subjective....hence, not all art is subjective....
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If you consider a technical manual "art" that is your subjective opinion. To me, all writing is not art. Just as a painted wall of a house is not the same as a painting by Picasso. But your belief that a owners manual is art actually supports my argument, in that, art is in the "eye of the beholder." Your belief "that it is" becomes completely subjective just as if someone looked at the side of that painted house and thought it was beautiful in color and or architecture. A businessman may find a speech about corporate takeovers as art. Why? Because to him it becomes thought provoking and creative. Speech writing or owner manual writing may be considered by some as art and or art form... but again, subjective.
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or, another analogy if you'd like.....math....do you consider math art? how is math in anyway subjective?
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No... do you? Some may. Look, I know where you are going with this. I've studied and debated the idea you preach here. I've taken several classes on the philosophy you speak of.
Let me make this clear... The art I am referring to. What
I consider art to be, is and forever will be subjective. You may find a 1971 Corvette, art... I may not (although I do). You may want to take a picture of dog shit and call it art... I may think it was just a picture of dog shit and not thought provoking. Again, subjective. Almost anything on the planet could and may be considered art... "in the eye of the beholder"... again, subjective.
Just to label something as art (i.e., stereo manual) is subjective. To define what art is or isn't IS subjective.
I don't necessarily buy you or Nietzsche views on what is or isn't subject and or objective. I may chose to dismiss the philosophy altogether. Why? Because a philosophy may not fit into my own reality of what I consider truths. Therefore what Thoreau or Plato may see as truths may not be so to me in my own existence and understanding of it.
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what you may consider as art, or worthy of being recognized as art, can be subjective.....but nonetheless, all art is not subjective.....guy A considers math art, you don't = subjective......math as an art = objective
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Wrong.
I don't consider math as art... subjective. You consider math as art... subjective. Math
itself... objective.
When you say, "math as an art = objective" your use of the word "art" becomes a completely subjective term. Math is objective... as an art? I guess that depends on who you ask, don't ya think?
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for further consideration on this topic and my views on "art" and the ever cliche "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" i suggest you search for a thread titled "is killing/murder art?" in this very philosophy section here at DF......resurrect if you'd like.....i truly love discussing the philosophy of art....
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Thank you for pointing that out. I'll pass and live in the moment. I don't mean to sound "dismissive" as I'm sure it's pure genius on your part.
<snicker>
All kidding aside, I am glad to see that this site actually has people with something to say. Perhaps I'll stick around and delight you with my thoughts on, "Bubble Gum: The New Religion" next.